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Bad thoughts

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Posted by: Frederik

Yesterday I saw somebody who I knew back from school and I don't like this guy. He burns cds and pc-games and sells them and he's not saved and then I thought about him going to hell for this and somehow I enjoeyed this thought and this shocked me. How can I think something like this ? I also thought that it would be boring if everybody was saved cause then Christians wouldn't be special cause everybody was one.
I don't understand why I think this.


Posted by: JG

The bible says

PHI 4:8     Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think o­n these things.

EPH 5:18    And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 5:19    Speaking to yourselves in psalms (songs) and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 5:20    Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Also you are young




Posted by: Frederik

I dont understand anything...what do you wanna tell me ??


Posted by: JG

Instead of filling your mind with bad thoughts. The Word of God says to fill you mind with these thoughts.

Anstatt, Ihren Verstand mit schlechten Gedanken zu füllen  Das Wort des Gottes sagt, Sie Verstand mit diesen Gedanken zu füllen.

PHI 4:8 Weiter, liebe Brüder: Was wahrhaftig ist, was ehrbar, was gerecht, was rein, was liebenswert, was einen guten Ruf hat, sei es eine Tugend, sei es ein Lob - darauf seid bedacht

Eph 18-20 Und bsauft euch nicht voll Wein, woraus ein unordentliches Wesen folgt, sondern laßt euch vom Geist erfüllen. 19Ermuntert einander mit Psalmen und Lobgesängen und geistlichen Liedern, singt und spielt dem Herrn in eurem Herzen c 20und dsagt Dank Gott, dem Vater, allezeit für alles, im Namen unseres Herrn Jesus Christus.












Posted by: robertcyders

...be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God...

Frederik, you just need a renewal of your mind. You need to submit your thought life to God. Take your thoughts that are contrary to seeing others the way Jesus did when He laid down His life for them as well as for you. By dwelling and thinking upon whatever is lovely, true, and of good report {PHI 4:8 Weiter, liebe Brüder: Was wahrhaftig ist, was ehrbar, was gerecht, was rein, was liebenswert, was einen guten Ruf hat, sei es eine Tugend, sei es ein Lob - darauf seid bedacht}
we bring our minds into a place where God can change our thought life.
We submit our heart to Him and His peace will guard our hearts and minds through His Spirit.

Frederik, there is a lot of passages I have posted in this post.
Feel free to ask what some passages mean. First ask God to give you understanding.

Blessings, Robert Cyders...



2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does.
4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
(NIV)


Eph 4:17-32
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
(NKJ)


Rom 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(KJV)


1 Tim 2:1-6
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(KJV)


Posted by: Frederik

Thanks for your replies but I think I do something wrong.
I need this breakthrough, I am not even sure wether I am born again.
I am really confused. God talks to many people but not to me and I dont know why.
I wish I had somebody who could help me but my pastor couldn't help me. His advice didn't help me very much.
I hear of all these people which are baptized with the HS and they fall to the floor and roll around and all that stuff and they encounter God.
I wish I could also experience this but in my church nobody does this, it's rather a conservative church and there are only old people.


Posted by: thryllz

Dear Frederik,

     I'm not too sure o­n the age of this thread, but i do pray that you come to know Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal savior. As for the whole "falling-on-the-floor-by-the-Holy-Spirit" act... (and i do mean act) i am happy that you DIDN'T experience it. The reason is, the Holy Spirit would NEVER put a true Christian in the way of danger. Falling o­n the floor backwards (or forwards, what have you) is very dangerous. Many who have "fallen"  to the ground have been hurt. I know of a person who had to get 11 stiches all because of this...

While Jesus was in the flesh, he did many healings... look at these examples:

Luk 17:11  And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
Luk 17:12  And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
Luk 17:13  And they lifted up [their] voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy o­n us.
Luk 17:14  And when he saw [them], he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
Luk 17:15  And o­ne of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
Luk 17:16  And fell down o­n [his] face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
Luk 17:17  And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where [are] the nine?
Luk 17:18  There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
Luk 17:19  And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

From this we can see that when the leper came back to Jesus, HE fell at Jesus' feet.... Jesus then LIFTED him up...its the same with the Holy Spirit...

Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lie [as in, o­n the floor], and knew that he had been now a long time [in that case], he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Joh 5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and o­n the same day was the sabbath.

From this example, the man who was paralized and was ALREADY laying o­n the ground, was told to RISE by JESUS... Jesus also gave him the strength not o­nly to walk, but also to take up his bed. When someone falls in o­ne of these meetings, it is as if they loose strength...  

The o­nly place where the presence of God put someone o­n the floor was when they were possesed with an evil spirit or a demonic spirit... take this for example:

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

There are many examples, but im trying not to make this reply soo long... (sadly i am too late for that... sorry).

In summery, we see that when God healed, he actually healed WITHOUT endangering the health of the o­ne getting  healed.

Many people that i know who have had this "experience" have said that the reason that they fall is because they see a gigantic snake coming to get them, which causes them to repel backwards.

I hope this has helped you to see that because a person falls is not an indication of something good. I hope you have also seen that Jesus came to PICK US UP off the floor and not to PUT US o­n the floor... I hope and pray that this has been of some help to you and everyone else who reads this... any further questions that you may have ill be welcomed...

May the wisdom of God, the example of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching of the Holy Spirit rest and abide with you not o­nly for this time, but for as long as you are o­n this earth. In Jesus' Name... Amen.

 




Posted by: robertcyders

If you have read this following post before just continue down to the text in green for my reply:


thryllz
Junior Member
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Philadelphia Posts: 16



thryllz wrote:

Dear Frederik,

I'm not too sure on the age of this thread, but i do pray that you come to know Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal savior. As for the whole "falling-on-the-floor-by-the-Holy-Spirit" act... (and i do mean act) i am happy that you DIDN'T experience it. The reason is, the Holy Spirit would NEVER put a true Christian in the way of danger. Falling on the floor backwards (or forwards, what have you) is very dangerous. Many who have "fallen" to the ground have been hurt. I know of a person who had to get 11 stiches all because of this...

While Jesus was in the flesh, he did many healings... look at these examples:

Luk 17:11 And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
Luk 17:12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
Luk 17:13 And they lifted up [their] voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy o_n us.
Luk 17:14 And when he saw [them], he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
Luk 17:15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
Luk 17:16 And fell down on [his] face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
Luk 17:17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where [are] the nine?
Luk 17:18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
Luk 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

From this we can see that when the leper came back to Jesus, HE fell at Jesus' feet.... Jesus then LIFTED him up...its the same with the Holy Spirit...

Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lie [as in, on the floor], and knew that he had been now a long time [in that case], he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Joh 5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

From this example, the man who was paralized and was ALREADY laying on the ground, was told to RISE by JESUS... Jesus also gave him the strength not only to walk, but also to take up his bed. When someone falls in one of these meetings, it is as if they loose strength...

The only place where the presence of God put someone on the floor was when they were possesed with an evil spirit or a demonic spirit... take this for example:

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

There are many examples, but im trying not to make this reply soo long... (sadly i am too late for that... sorry).

In summery, we see that when God healed, he actually healed WITHOUT endangering the health of the one getting healed.

Many people that i know who have had this "experience" have said that the reason that they fall is because they see a gigantic snake coming to get them, which causes them to repel backwards.

I hope this has helped you to see that because a person falls is not an indication of something good. I hope you have also seen that Jesus came to PICK US UP off the floor and not to PUT US on the floor... I hope and pray that this has been of some help to you and everyone else who reads this... any further questions that you may have ill be welcomed...

May the wisdom of God, the example of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the teaching of the Holy Spirit rest and abide with you not only for this time, but for as long as you are on this earth. In Jesus' Name... Amen.

__________________
thryllz...




thrylls, your experience or others bad experieces with "falling" does not justify your statement that this is not of God. I minister to many children and teens. I have taken many to Jerry Gaffney's meetings. He ministers to them and they many but not all times fall. On one particular night I brought 17 kids to a meeting Jerry held in Milwaukie, Oregon.
One of these kids I took was named stewart. He is the one in the following picture (white tee-shirt who has never been to a church like the one he went to that night (he does not attend a church). In fact he did not even know what to expect or how to "act" when Jerry ministered to him. He and my son Jason fell down to the ground. I asked them a few minutes later if they could get up. Stewart said that he could not because he said his tee-shirt was heavy. He could only move his hands, his arms just stayed fixed upon the ground. Could it be that the Glory of God had affected him? The anointing was upon him. Does he look scared like a serpent had manifest before his eyes causing him to fall backwards? I do not agree with your logic stated above. Would someone else like to respond to this post either supporting or refuting the manifestation of falling under the anointing?








Why did this band of men fall?


John 18:3-8
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
(KJV)

Did Saul fall because he saw a snake or because he saw the Glory?

Acts 22:6-11
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
(KJV)

Why did John fall? Was it the manifest Glory of God?

Rev 1:13-18
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
(KJV)


Falling as an act of worship...

Rev 19:4
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
(KJV)


Rev 5:11-14
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
(KJV)


Blessings, Robert Cyders...


Posted by: DXDUA

frederik- hello- i do not know you or your thoughts- but i do know from my own experience that you must work on yourself- you must surrender to God, and pray- pray for God to help you , to humble you, and then stop- just be still, and aware that God is with you at all times-pray for this person -pray that God will help change this person- ask God to help change you and your thoughts- he will- it may not come in the way that you expect..(falling with the hs upon you) but he will touch you , and he will answer you!!! this you must believe-i will pray for you, and for God to answer you in a way that you will understand...your sister ..donna


Posted by: Frederik

You know this makes me feel really bad.
It gives me the impression that you cannot be a "real" christian until you've been hit by the Holy Spirit and fallen to the floor.
Unfortunately things like that don't happen in my church.
I wanna know 1 thing.
What does this falling to the floor cause ?? Is it rather emotional and afterwards the people are still the same or does it really change something ?
Are the people which fall to the floor enlightened or does their character change ? Do they stop sinning or what ? Do the people have visions when they are lying o­n the floor or does God talk to them ?
What does it cause ?


Posted by: DXDUA

frederik- stop focusing on what you see or expect..just be still and believe that God will answer you- you must be open for the spirit to touch you- and yes you will know- there will be a sense of peace that will forever be with you- a humbling-you are always going to sin- as you are human-but God forgives you and still loves you- isnt that awesome- that even at your darkest- our lord forgives you and loves you- he wants whats best for you, and will put you in situations that you may not like or understand but will teach and show you- he wants you to always trust and turn to him- stop expecting your relationship with God to be like so many others- allow yours to be special -something personal between you and he- talk to him- and he will answer- maybe not instantly-but through your thoughts, through things that happen, things you see- but mainly through things that you cannot see-he is always around you- i read once something that spoke of pain- you cannot always see it-yet you can feel it- like God- you may not see him with your eyes- but he is always there-everywhere, and at all times- just try to be patient- do not be sad- know that your relationship with God is just that- yours!! and allow that to fill you with joy-ask him to help you understand and show you in ways that you will understand, then go about your day, and when he has the perfect opportunity-he will explain it all to you- dont get upset if you dont fall to the ground-be joyful that God is listening to you, and that he has a life full of blessings just for you...focus on him and your love for him, and let him worry about everything else- he will show you all that you ask but in his time...this has taken me along time to learn and accept- but when i did...wow- life even with all its twists and turns is wonderful- because i know that God is with me always...


Posted by: DXDUA

frederik- try and look at things in appreciation- no matter what your going through- see that you have a place to live, im assuming that you are healthy? you have people in your life that love and support you,so many in this world do not- never take things for granted- if you are in school, think of so many who are never given that opportunity- or are in lands of oppression,you say that you enjoyed thinking of this guy in hell-when you can pray for the best for him, and really mean it- then you will know that you have been touched- but first you must work on yourself and your relationship in growing closer to God- then everything else will fall into place- just pray on it- if you like heres a great number that is open 24 hrs- 1-800-759-0700-they will pray with you and guide you- they have helped me very very much. i will pray also for you- donna


Posted by: thryllz

Dear robercyders:

     I believe you misread my reply. I am talking about healing.... YES the Spirit of God causes to fall... YES God WILL put someone o­n their back... but NOT when He is healing OUTSIDE of a demonic depression... the Bible has many examples of healings and, with the exception of demonic possession or oppression, NONE of them, to mind, resulted in the healee (sorry for the made-up word) falling.
     
     You said:

Why did this band of men fall?


John 18:3-8
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
(KJV)


Lets analyze this a little closer. Firstly, let us go way back to the Lord's supper.

Joh 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
Joh 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and o­ne of you is a devil?
Joh 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being o­ne of the twelve.

We can see that after the Lord's supper, Judas Iscariot was being lead of the devil.

In all reality, i want to thank you for establishing my point for me... Judas brought a band of men to take the Lord Jesus to be crucified... Jesus declared the divine name ( "I AM" depending o­n what version you read, it may say "I am [he]") and the band fell to the floor.  To be exact, they fell backwards... this is not a falling of healing... this is not a good fall... this fall was a bad fall because the ring leader of the band was a man that was lead of the devil.... when evil comes to terms with Light.... it is confounded by it (John 1:5)

You said:

Did Saul fall because he saw a snake or because he saw the Glory?

Acts 22:6-11
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
(KJV)

You must remember the status of Saul BEFORE his conversion:

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.

Act 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Act 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way [the way of Christ], whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.


We can see that before the conversion of Saul, he was o­ne lead by the devil to throw professing Christ-followers into jail. o­n his way to Damascus, the "Light" o­nce again confounded the "Darkness" causing him to fall to the ground, NOT in a good way, thus, establishing my point again.

You said:

Why did John fall? Was it the manifest Glory of God?

Rev 1:13-18
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks o­ne like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
(KJV)

this is a prime example of the misunderstanding that i was talking about... YES the glory of God can make people fall, but NOT in a sense that is harmful to the believer IF the believer is CORRECT in his walk. In the example above, John knew who the being that he saw was... and fell at his feet...Christ then put His hand o­n John and told him not to be afraid... this is an example of someone being in the presence of God's glory and falling in worship.. take the example of everyone who was correct in God who came into contact with an angel.. They fell at their feet, but the angel always responded "dont do that"

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

You said:

Falling as an act of worship...

Rev 19:4
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat o­n the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
(KJV)


Rev 5:11-14
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and o­n the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
(KJV)

You are correct when you say that, simply because it IS an act of worship... BUT o­nLY if the action is voluntary... remember... God will NOT FORCE you to love, and worship Him. The examples above all depict those who voluntaraly (please forgive my horrid spelling) FELL to WORSHIP... everyone in the Bible who fell to worship was conscious during the falling... they were in controll during the falling... and they didnt need someone to catch them when they fell... every last o­ne of your examples established my point.... Jesus never put someone in harm's way when they came to him for healing.... remember:

Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.


You said:

Stewart said that he could not because he said his tee-shirt was heavy. He could o­nly move his hands, his arms just stayed fixed upon the ground. Could it be that the Glory of God had affected him? The anointing was upon him. Does he look scared like a serpent had manifest before his eyes causing him to fall backwards?

The whole thing about the serpent is not to be taken as "scripture" (if you understand what i mean) i was just sharing a testimony of a woman who went up for o­ne of these healings... and if i may say so myself, no disrespect intended, the boys in the picture look like they are just "chilling" o­n the floor... some of the children in the second picture look like they dont know whats going o­n... now please keep in mind that in this section, im answering the probably rhetorical question, "Does he look scared like a serpent had manifest before his eyes causing him to fall backwards?"
I wasn't present to actually see what was going o­n so i can o­nly go by the pictures that were taken...


     Without me forcing anything, i want you to contemplate the elements of the following verse:

Luk 9:42 And as he [Jesus] was yet a coming, the devil threw him [possessed boy] down, and tare [him]. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

to help you in your contemplation, ask yourself the following questions:

1) Where was Jesus going?
2) What was Jesus going to do?
3) What was wrong with the boy?
4) While Jesus was yet coming, what happened to the boy?
5) What three (3) steps did Jesus perform?
6) Did Jesus let the boy lie o­n the ground?
7) If not, what did Jesus do?

I hope and pray that this very short study was helpful to whomever may read it, and may the God of understanding open the minds of all those who may read this... in Jesus' name... Amen


Posted by: robertcyders

I appreciate your integrity with maintaning what your opinion is however much I am in disagreement with it. Due to time constraints I am unable to respond to this post as I would like.

I would like some of my friends on this site to respond to this with whatever God puts upon their hearts. JG, Shawn, skywalker, Jerryrose, Anthony, and those others of you who have been to Jerry's meetings and have been healed when you got up off the floor chime in here. Maybe you received more than healing when you stood up, let us testify of what the LORD has done.
This is what this site is here for to encourage, to exort, to correct, to pray, and to praise.

As to falling down a good example was my wife who Jerry layed hands upon at a meeting in Portland, Oregon. She suffered with Polycycsticovariansydrome for years. When she sood up after being on the floor for a time she was healed completely and still is to this day....We serve an Awesome God!

Blessings, Robert Cyders....


Posted by: JeriRose12

Federik:

I was saved at about age ten and did not "fall under the power" for the first time until I was around age thirty-eight.  So don't tell us (as opposed to you) that we don't have to wiat for things.  That's twenty-eight years I waited!  I was always afraid of falling; I didn't want to fall.  But don't you think God is powerful enough to have overcome my fear?  Of course.  But He did not force me against my will.  The first time I fell was at a Jerry Gaffney meeting.  I just made up my mind, "No more fear," and when Jerry prayed--boom!--I went down.  I just wanted God enough to get outside my flesh and let Him do it. 

What happens when you're down there?  Jerry spoke a few words over me (I wrote them down, but don't remember it now) and a lady spoke over me more words (which I wasn't sure about, but seem to be lining up with some things happening now).  I was not healed physically.  As I recall, that was actually the beginning of a really wierd time in my life.  Just after that, I went through o­ne of the darkest times of my life--being totally deceived by someone who claimed to have a word from God, which turned out to be total lies.  So what was the purpose of falling?  Well, looking back, I believe God was touching me so I could make it through the tough time ahead.  I believe the Holy Spirit was strengthening me to get trhough those truly dark days.

Another time, in the midst of the trial I mentioned above, I fell under the power again.  Tim Hall (I think that's his name), from Austraila, was in o­ne of Jerry's meetings.  When he prayed over me, he could sense/tell I was fighting it, so he said "Fall!"  (I guess Thryllz won't like that).  Anyway, I went right down.  I saw no visions, had no dreams, heard no words....just lay in quite, peaceful rest.  Surely this was a time of further strengthening from the Holy Spirit because I was battling demons--litterally!  (I heard them speaking out of the girl who supposedly had this "word from God" that turned out to be lies.) 

Oh, yes, then at a local meeting, at a church near my sister's, we went to a meeting.  A man, who is my sister's and brother-in-law's friend was preaching, so I went to hear him.  He prayed over me that day, and guess what?  I went down pretty quick.  No-one pushed me, forced me, co-ersed me.  There was just this power that touched me, and I couldn't stand.  I saw no serpant!  The man's wife spoke a word over me that I "would shut the mouths of devils." That fit in with exactly what I was going through!  I was fighting demons!  This girl would call o­n the phone, and demonic voices spoke out of her.  So, anyway, AGAIN the Holy Spirit was strengthening me for what I was going through--battling demons. 

So those are my three experiences with "falling"--or as someone o­n TBN said "resting in the Spirit."  To be honest, Federik, don't get too concerned.  God works with everyone as an individual.  You are unique.  He treats you uniquely.  Do you think I don't ever wonder why he doesn't do it the way I want Him to in the time I want Him to?  I don't understand His ways.  I just have to let Him be God!  Why did I fall then and not sooner?  Why haven't I fallen since?  I don't know!  Is my relationship with Jesus based o­n falling?  No way!!!  I love Him, because He first loved me!!!  Do I really need to fall?  No.  Maybe God's glory is just so strong o­n someone or in a meeting that I can't stand up in the presence of Jesus.  Do I understand all the whys of falling?  Of course not.  Does it really matter if I ever fell or ever do again?  No!  There is o­nly o­ne thing that means I am saved--that I believed o­n Jesus and His sacraifice o­n the cross.  Paul said "I preach o­nly o­ne thing--Christ and Him crucified" (excuse my bad paraphrase).  If anyone adds anything to the simple truth of the Gospel, they are wrong.  You don't have to fall, or even speak in tongues, to go to Heaven.  But if God sovereignly chooses to knock you out, it's perfectly okay to go down.

Be encouraged!  You are unique and wonderfully made!  God loves you just the way you are--and falling neither proves nore disproves that.  All my love, JeriRose




Posted by: JeriRose12

Thryllz:

As you relaize, I have no problem with falling.  For me, I know it was God, because I always stiffen my knees and stand rigid, so no-one can push me down.  I have never been hurt.  And I saw no serpant.  In fact, my strong belief is I was fighting the serpant!  All three times (as I noticed when I typed the above post) were around the time of great deception coming into my life.  God knew I needed something special to fight the devil head o­n!  And the really interesting thing--the third time I fell, at the local church, the girl with the demonic manifestations was there.  She went up for prayer, too.  The same man prayed for her!  She did not fall.  My niece was there, and we both fell.  And the man's wife spoke that word about shutting the mouth's of devils over both my niece and I.  This girl eventually laid down o­n her own.  She later asked about the word (assuming it was for her, too, as the three of us were hanging kind of close at the time), but we realized the word was not for her.  She HAD demons!  She, who had demons, could not be touched by the power of God.

In another meeting I went to check out, they forced me to fall.  I was trying to stand rigid ( I did not want to go up for prayer in the first place; they dragged me up agianst my will), but the lady kept pushisng o­n me.  They told me not to be afraid to fall.  I think if the whole thing had been real, I would not have been able to stand.  I do not know for sure what to make of that situation, as I did feel something o­n me....and I believe I spoke in tongues.  But I know experiences and feelings are not what faith is based o­n, so I am not overly concerned whether it was bonafide and I am writing it off as fake.  God is bigger than my struggles to understand.  I o­nly know, it had a kind of negative impact, because I was co-erced to fall more than not.  But the above three--all good and I believe truly from God.

Love always, JeriRose




Posted by: JeriRose12

For Federik:

Here is something majorly important to chew o­n:  My brother-in-law fell under the power numerous times at Jerry Gaffney's meetings, and where is he today?  In a cult!!!   I fell under the power less times, and where am I today?  Still serving Jesus!!!  Why?  Because I kept my eyes o­n Jesus; I did not follow the sign or Jerry.  Truly, truly only Jesus will ever satisfy your soul!!!


Posted by: JeriRose12

Robert:

It's good to see you posting again!  Welcome back!  Thank you for reminding me of the times I did fall, and the way if fit in with what I was going through at the time.  I could say (along Thryllz line of reasoning) I fell because demons influenced it--in the light of the demonic stuff that followed.  I think the girl with demons was there all three times I fell.  But I view it differently.  It hit me as I typed that God was giving me an anointing and strength for that trial of fighting demons head o­n!!!  What an awesomely cool thought!  God is so great!

There are a few other times I have fallen--in my home, watching TBN.  It's usually during Praise-a-thon.  O­ne night, it was a broadcast of a Benny Hinn meeting.  I could barely stand for falling down.  And rivers of heat were going over me.  Come to think of it, I was in the thick of that demonic trial that night; that girl even called me o­n the phone, and I put the phone up to my T.V. speaker so she could listen in.  Recently, I fell, more o­n my face, as I recall, when Betty Jean Robinson (not James' wife, but the lady who sings at Praise-a-thon) was singing "I'm Talking About my Savior's Precisous Blood."  What a beutiful flow of the river of the Holy Ghost that night!  I was so moved!  How could I stand at the thought of what my Savior's blood had done?  Truly, there is anointing in the blood!  Anyway...don't fall for any tricks of the devil!  Just fall in love with Jesus!!!  Whether we stand or fall, Jesus is ALL that matters!!!

Your sister, JeriRose


Posted by: Frederik

Thanks Jeri.
But I don't understand one thing.
God knows the future. Supposing he knows that somebody will one day stop believing then why should he make him become a believer in the first place ? That makes no sense. Or would you buy something to eat when you know that it'll expire before you eat it ?


Posted by: JeriRose12

And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.  But he who endures to the end will be saved.  Matthew 10:22

Let no o­ne deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revelaed, the son of perdition.  2 Thessalonians 2:3

Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.  And because lawlessnesn will abound, the love of many will grow cold.  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.  Matthew 24:29

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 
24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house o­n the rock: 25and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat o­n that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded o­n the rock.
26"But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house o­n the sand: 27and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat o­n that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."   Mathew 7:21-27

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  2 Peter 1:5-11

 Also read Revelation Chapters 2 & 3.  When Jesus spoke to the seven churches he pronounced judgement o­n them if they did not repent.

People can and will fall away from God, though they o­nce believed in Him.  Why?  Because they make a choice to.  God gave us free will, the ability to choose or reject Him.  I say I love Him today, but tomorrow I could reject Him.  Why?  Because I would make that choice.  God does not force us to do anything--just as He did not force me to fall.  God wants willing followers, not robots.  If we turn from Him, He is sad, and He does everything He can to bring us back to Him, except forcing us to repent.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,  but  is longsuffering toward us,  not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence.2 peter 3:9

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses o­ne of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the o­ne which is lost until he finds it?  Luke 15:3

Read the entire chapter of Luke 15.  This is the story of the prodigal.  What better example of the fact that men will reject their Father in heaven?  But what better example of the Lord's grace and mercey towards the repentent one?  And all throughout the Old Testement God's people kept rejecting Him; but He went after them continually, trying to woo them back.  In many passages God said He divorced His people, but it was all for o­ne reason:  So He could marry them again, after they repented for their sins.  God's mercey is endless.  Why dod you think Jesus hasn't come back yet?  God is giving people time to come to Him--and giving those who used to believe in Him time to return to Him.  If o­ne of God's children is lost, He will not be satified until he is found:

"For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost."  Luke 19:10

I told you about my brother-in-law as a warning:  Don't chase after signs; chase after Jesus!!!




Posted by: robertcyders

JeriRose, thanks for your response here. Thanks as well for the welcome back.
The first time that I fell was at a Benny Hinn crusade.
During worship my body started to vibrate and shake as if I was cold.
I was not cold. Pretty soon I was having trouble standing in font of my seat, three times I fell back (into my seat behind me). Benny was ministering and teaching on the anointing. I did not know a thing about this because I was a good Baptist and this was not encouraged teaching
in this particular denomination. Benny asked those who wanted to be touched by the anointing to come forward. So I ran to see what this was all about. Benny did not even touch me, he just pointed at me and said "receive it brother" and I fell out. No strength remained in my arms or legs and did not return until I physically was carried off of the stage.I had a lot to ponder after that I did not even know what I experienced, but I did get up with a much greated hunger for God. It was like being shocked with 240 volts (been-there-done- that) across my body only without the pain and great fear that occurs when this happens (thanks to an anointed praying 5 year old daughter).

Now I have since been to other churches that Jerry has been to and the minister was "pushing" me off balance to cause me to fall. This is not even needed, nor did I respect the action. My friend Dan Nolan just asked his Father for a greater anointing to that people would not question if they were pushed or not. He often times would be 20 or more feet away and I would go down. Now back to the one who pushed ...Another time I was ministered to in prayer by him and I was already experiencing a great anointing of the precense of the Holy Spirit. I went down trying to maintain my stand. I was overwhelmed by the power of God, there was no time for someone to catch me. I have even ministered to my own family myself and they have fallen due to the anointing within me.

JerriRose, thanks for going back down memory lane with me.
It is not a matter of falling, but what kind of person are you when you get back up off the floor that matters =)


Blessings, Robert Cyders.....



"Truly, there is anointing in the blood! Anyway...don't fall for any tricks of the devil! Just fall in love with Jesus!!! Whether we stand or fall, Jesus is ALL that matters!!!"

Your sister, JeriRose


Posted by: skywalker


I was so confused when I was first saved and had so many questions. I knew I wanted to know Jesus more but like you I did not fully understand that I stood in Jesus and His righteousness (He is the o­ne without sin, with a pure heart, full of love) I spent alot of time, like you wondering if I was really saved. I still thought things that at times turned my stomach. Then I would spend so much time wondering if I was saved why I thought bad things or had bad thoughts. I felt really dirty and remember thinking I was to dirty for God to love. I also went to a church where I didn't hear about the Holy Spirit or see anyone fall or speak in tongues. I went there because I wanted to know God and it was a church, thats all I knew. I remember when I first went oh I was so excited I wanted to know this Jesus. I had moved home to my parents to clean up. Because my life before was lived mainly in darkness and o­n the street my clothes were revealing, you know street clothes anyway....I put o­n my best street clothes and was o­n my way, i knew I was going to follow Jesus. I got to church the pastor stopped me at the door ( he was greeting people) and said to me I should go to a special teen class upstairs. It was ok I went in, sat down and when everyone got in the room I looked forward excitedly, its time I'm going to find out about Jesus. The teacher? started asking questions and asking for responses from the kids. The o­nly question I remember was, Why do you think someone would wear revealing, short clothes? The answers came, because the person wants get attention, because the person wants to seduce men etc, etc. I never went back to that class. They couldn't understand I didn't have any other clothes, and in my excitement to know Jesus did not even think that way. I did talk to a friend about it and she bought me two dresses that touched the floor.
I just wanted to get in so I could hear about Jesus. I kept going to the church services where I heard about baptism in water. I wanted that to I wanted to please this Jesus. At that time I had started talking to a few people at the bar where my parents worked about Jesus ( for some reason at that time it came so natural ) I thought if people knew they would want to know Him too. Anyway when it came time to get baptized, I had invited some of these people and my parents to MY baptism, and I was excited. The night of the baptism they did show up too. I was up front behind the curtain waiting for my name to be called by the pastor and when he did (being alittle embarrassed) because he said my name wrong (on such an important day too). I walked down the stairs all the family friends from the bar started hooting and howling like I just scored in football. I felt the rest of the church didn't understand my family friends, none of them cheered! After I was baptized I went to change into dry clothes ( I thought it was neat the ladies who helped me thought to put weights o­n the bottom of my dress that hung to the floor) that way I wouldn't seduce anyone if my dress floated up. Anyway I went out to the church after to thank my friends for coming. I could hear them as I walked to the back where they were sitting, when I got to them they seemed pretty happy, and I think that might of been the first time I smelled alcohol o­n them and realized they probably weren't going to fit in here. But, they came to see me get baptized.
As time went by I would read the bible not understanding to much, not realizing at the time that God was doing works in me just with what I did understand, but at the time I could o­nly see where I seemed to be, not where God was taking me.
At that time I was single and living in California, I'll skip to about twenty years later to try and get back to your question about being filled with the spirit, falling to the floor.....
My husband and kids had to move to Washington because the shipyard where my husband worked closed down.  At the time we couldn't understand why God would move us, and let this happen to My husbands job?  After much pray and turmoil my husband and kids were now saved and excited about God I mean they were reall excited,"they even spoke in tongues"  We had bible studies at our house where 40 to 50 kids (mostly gang members) would squease into our house and pray and give testamonies, rival gang members would give up their colors and break down before God.  How could God move us?  There was no answer for awhile.
We moved up here and started going to a spirit-filled, bible-based, denomination.  Where like you we still had questions and although the teaching was better (I) still had not experienced the fullness of what I was learning.( I'll let my family have their own testimonies).
  My son married and moved in town, we lived out aways.  He invited us to the church were he was going saying there was a man visiting his church we should hear.  By the excitment in his voice we decided to go.  I walked in with my husband and sit down to hear the man called Jerry.  He started teaching and my first reaction was this guy is to far out and left.  My son talked to me later saying if I would just sit and listen, thats all.  So I did,  I know my son loved God and this new excitement about God was really getting me interested.  So we went back Jerry taught but he not o­nly taught the would he believed the word.  It now wasn't a book explaining things that happened or things that could happen or things that will happen.  Jerry believed that what God said is a now thing, for us and not for someone else.  All of a sudden someone was talking about disciples a men with gifts from God, no longer untouchable Saints.  Prophets who were regular people (like us) who God used because they believed!!!!!!!
I'd like to say the first week under Jerry's teaching was easy for me but it wasn't.  He taught about the Glory and Holiness of God.  At the same time teaching us to come before God in times of worship.  I would leave that place knowing that God was a mighty God  and a Holy God.  A God I could never get near because This God demanded Righteousness and Holiness.  To Him, the price for sin was death!!!!!!  I would never be excepted, my heart was so heavy, for days when Jerry spoke I left feeling more dejected and hopeless.  I knew my thoughts, I knew where I was from, where I had been, the things I had done.  I was ashamed to admit it to my family being so dirty.  This man talked about a living God, a now God.  He now wasn't the safe God I had known in the past.  I MEAN THIS GOD WAS HOLY AND HE KNEW MY HEART, MY THOUGHTS.  Oh God, I'm going to hell I'm so ashamed before this Holy God.  Then Jerry starts talking about the mercy seat, the mercy God has for us and that mercy came through HIS own SON.  HIS SON IS HOLY, PURE, JUST  AND WITHOUT SIN, HIS THOUGHTS ARE NOT LIKE MY THOUGHTS HE GAVE HIS SINLESS LIFE IN PLACE OF MINE!!!!  When God looks at me he doesn't see my sin, my heart, my thoughts.  Praise God, "He Took Care Of All Of It"  When He Looks at me because I believe in His Son and what His Son did. thats who The Father Sees, "HIS SON'  I'M ACCEPTED, I'M CLEAN, I A CHILD OF GOD, I'M LOVED.  Jerry called us to the altar for a time of worship, man I just wanted to worship Him.  I began to worship and God's Spirit began talking to me telling me how much Jesus loves me, every bit of me He began showing me every area of my life and healing it with His love He filled me from head to toe.  It was liquid love,  Like warm honey,  I cried,  I didn't care who was there.  Some o­ne tried to pray for me, Jerry said no, don't touch her God is ministering to her, I WAS So thankful.  I just wanted more of Him and till this day He's the o­ne I seek still, I love Him, because He first loved me,  I know love Its Jesus.  And Fredrick you know what,  I WAS o­n THE FLOOR.
Love Your Sister In Christ,
Charla (Skywalker)


Posted by: robertcyders

Skywalker, your testimony brought to me joy, and tears.
You moved my heart and the hearts of others in this post. Thank you for sharing and taking the time to write this. Do you still minister to the you/gangs in your area?

Once again, thank you. Keep that fire burning, and continue to share it with others. After reading this my heart burns within me regarding the grace that God has towards you and to all of us.

Blessings, Robert Cyders your brother in Christ...