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The Mists of Time........

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Posted by: gordypordy

So how long ago did it all REALLY happen then.

This big-bang, cataclysmic, God ordained assembly of creation!

Science states that it was over 4.65 billion years, ago or so! And could be as high as 6 or 7 billion, they just don't have the right 'tools' to finitely declare this to be so, using radiometric dating methods on huge lumps of rock deeply hewn out of the preserving stones of Antarctica and the like.

And what about all the queries and peculiarities thrown into the broth!
Some theologians get so hooked on certain stuff that oftentimes they can't see the wood for the trees.
There's the 'oneness' versus the 'trinitarians' that amble on about whether god is one-in-three, three-in-one, one-with-three 'main offices' yet many others and so on! Often times they cite things like Genesis 1v27 where God declares 'let us make man in OUR image' ! Oh dear, that one REALLY throws the cat amongst the proverbial pigeons ! If God was, One, where did the 'WE' come from! They neglect to observe that by the time this statement arrives, God has created the heavens and the earth and most of the darned universe, and kinda presume that although Heaven is created, there is no 'heavenly host' as yet!

I've got my own 'pet' gripe, concerning the time thingy. Oh, it's not that I disagree with the scientists, no siree, I'm right up there with them!
4.65 Billion years + ?
Fine, good enough for me, I can deduce that much from scripture. But trying to get past some of the stricter religionist viewpoints of a little over 6,500 years is just too much for me. It all boils down to a guy called Josephus. In his writings Josephus gives an account of time-periods concerning famous biblical men, all the ways back to Adam! And he gets very precise about it too. I personally don't think poor Josephus knew it would provoke such heated debates over the years, but provoke it has done! And using the 'Josephus formulae' is the main source whereby the stricter religionists advocate the slightly more than 6,500 years principle, which really only applied in relation to mankind, and they apply this also to the 'ageof earth' debates, and peg the odd other days of creation before it on at the end !

I have already posted this message on another board. It is rather long, but very interesting. You can view it here ....

Science -v- Biblical Creation


Posted by: Theophilus

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordypordy
So how long ago did it all REALLY happen then.

This big-bang, cataclysmic, God ordained assembly of creation!

Science states that it was over 4.65 billion years, ago or so! And could be as high as 6 or 7 billion, they just don't have the right 'tools' to finitely declare this to be so, using radiometric dating methods on huge lumps of rock deeply hewn out of the preserving stones of Antarctica and the like.

And what about all the queries and peculiarities thrown into the broth!
Some theologians get so hooked on certain stuff that oftentimes they can't see the wood for the trees.
There's the 'oneness' versus the 'trinitarians' that amble on about whether god is one-in-three, three-in-one, one-with-three 'main offices' yet many others and so on! Often times they cite things like Genesis 1v27 where God declares 'let us make man in OUR image' ! Oh dear, that one REALLY throws the cat amongst the proverbial pigeons ! If God was, One, where did the 'WE' come from! They neglect to observe that by the time this statement arrives, God has created the heavens and the earth and most of the darned universe, and kinda presume that although Heaven is created, there is no 'heavenly host' as yet!

I've got my own 'pet' gripe, concerning the time thingy. Oh, it's not that I disagree with the scientists, no siree, I'm right up there with them!
4.65 Billion years + ?
Fine, good enough for me, I can deduce that much from scripture. But trying to get past some of the stricter religionist viewpoints of a little over 6,500 years is just too much for me. It all boils down to a guy called Josephus. In his writings Josephus gives an account of time-periods concerning famous biblical men, all the ways back to Adam! And he gets very precise about it too. I personally don't think poor Josephus knew it would provoke such heated debates over the years, but provoke it has done! And using the 'Josephus formulae' is the main source whereby the stricter religionists advocate the slightly more than 6,500 years principle, which really only applied in relation to mankind, and they apply this also to the 'ageof earth' debates, and peg the odd other days of creation before it on at the end !

I have already posted this message on another board. It is rather long, but very interesting. You can view it here ....

Science -v- Biblical Creation


people focusing way too much on details. Genesis was not meant to say how but who.
"In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth." (1:1)
personally i subscribe to the "Yom" theory. Yom is the Hebrew word for day. but just as in modern english, a day isn't necessarily a 24 hour period. (example: in my day...) yom can be used the same way.
"the evening" and "the morning" could descibe a time a death and growth. one of the Psalms compares men to grass which blossoms and sprouts in the morning but withers in the evening. whoever heard of a plant that goes through its entire life cycle in one day?! it was in fact a year long process.
there is also some textual evidence to suggest this. on the 6th day man was created (1:26-31). God planted a garden (2:8-9))and commanded Adam to care for it (v.15). the Hebrew word used for to plant is different from to create. it suggests a long process. and after it was completed couldn't it take care of itself for one day? he then had Adam name every living creature (v.19-20). Adam basically had to create a language for himself. that probably took a very long time.
and finally woman was created (22-25). when Adam said "this now is flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone" (v.23) it was morel like "at last...!" he had to have been waiting a very long time.

as for your question about "We" and "Our". a prof. of mine, Dr. Marvin Wilson, said that is more like a royal we. this isn't foreing to semitic culture. in the Koran, Allah uses the pronoun "We" too and muslims reject the Trinity.

in any case, how we were created is not the most important thing to understand. it is who created us, preserves us, and will judge us in the end. what is important in the historicity of Yeshua HaMashiach's (Jesus Christ's) life, death, and resurrection.

peace, joy, and love in God the Father
theophilus


Posted by: Ruth Terech

I have no idea, who can prove anything, but what I do know that God is my creator. Why he chose me to love, I have no idea. When I was a young woman, I was feeling very sinful and dirty. I decided to take along bath, and I started praying for God to forgive me for being so dirty.
I was lying in a tub of water, (on a dark and gloomy day) and the Spirit of God appeared to me. The room lit up brighter than anyone could imagine. I felt just love, and peace, I really can't describe it, but I have never doubted since on who did what. Why he picked me to give me a sign I don't know, maybe because of all the dirt in my life. But I have no doubt where I came from, or who loves me. When I tell this story to others sometimes (even Christians) look at me like I am crazy. I wish for them the same crazy. All there doubts would leave forever.
God bless you, and may someday God will bless you with a knowing.



Posted by: Lorica Lass

I believe the world was most likely created in 6 literal days. As far as what scientists say to indicate the world is billions of years old...They are always changing their minds! The truth is they don't have enough data. Their instruments may be getting better, but they are not as great as they would like to think. For just one example...

I used to think the universe had to be billions of years old because of the speed of light. There was the evidence, plain and simple. Light takes a long time to travel. We see things far away. They had to be created billions of years ago. It was proven. It was a fact. Period.

Then I found out that two scientists, one form an ivy league university here in American, and one from a prestigious university in England, had indications that the speed of light is slowing down! Another scientist in Russia, back in the 50s, had also come up with mathematical figures to support that the speed of light is slowing down.

There are scientists, equally as qualifed as the old earth scientists, who give lots of impressive data to show that the earth is young. Old earth scientists are relying on a principal called uniformity. I.e., if carbon is decaying at this rate where I sit today, well, it has always decayed at that rate where the object was formed. If light is traveling at this speed today, well, then it always has! Right? Not necessarily!!! Not a scientific assmuption, really! The truth is there are so many variables scientists has no clue about when it comes to pre recorded history.

Who was back there then, though? Uh, I think someone referred to as God.
And He has not left us to guess about how the universe was created. Why not believe the Creator of it all? He predicted the future so many times in the Bible. For example Moses correctly prophesied in Deuteronomy thousands of years in advance that the Israelites would turn from God, be scattered througout the world and be persecuted in horrible ways, but never cease to exist as a people.

Guess if Someone knows the future, He knows the past! I'll take HIS word on what happened way back then, thanks very much.