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The Thorn in the Flesh was not sickness but a person

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Posted by: JG

Oh my friends please study the verses below. I just love it when the Bible the word of God itself gives us the explanation. It shows very clearly the Thorn in the flesh was a person not a sickness. Every Jewish person would know this.

  1. God called people Thorns
 
  1. Thorns in the side
 
  1. Judges 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from
 
    Gilgal = The place where your reproach was taken away
 
    to Bochim The place of weeping
 
    and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt,
 
    I will never break my covenant with you. 2:2
 
    And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land;
 
    ye shall throw down their altars:
 
    but ye have not obeyed my voice:
 
    why have ye done this? 2:3
 
    Wherefore I also said,
 
    I will not drive them out from before you;
 
    but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides,
THORNS
    and their gods shall be a snare unto you. 2:4
SNARES
    And it came to pass,
 
    when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept. 2:5
WEEPING

SORROW

    And they called the name of that place Bochim:
 
    and they sacrificed there unto the LORD
 
  1. God called people Thorns through David
 
  1. The Lord said thorns were the Sons of Belial
SONS OF
  1. II Samuel 23:1 Now these [be] the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man [who was] raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 23:2 The spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word [was] in my tongue. 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men [must be] just, ruling in the fear of God.
  2. II Samuel 23:6 But [the sons] of Belial = sons of the Satan
SATAN

DEVIL

    [shall be] all of them as thorns thrust away,
Cast away
    because they cannot be taken with hands:
 
  1. Paul Called them the Sons of Belial
    1. II Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for
      what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and
      what communion hath light with darkness? 6:15 And
      what concord hath Christ with Belial? or
      what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 6:16 And
      what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
      for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
      I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and
      I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 6:17
      Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    		Unrighteous-

    ness

    Darkness

    Devil

    Infidel

    Idols

    1. God called people thorns through Jermiah
    		 
    1. We see here Sowing and reaping again thorns are people
    		 
    1. Jeremiah 4:3 For thus saith the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem,
    		 
      Break up your fallow ground,
    		 
      and sow not among thorns. 4:4
    		 
      Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,
    		 
      and take away the foreskins of your heart,
    		 
      ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem:
    		Fury of God
      lest my fury come forth like fire,
    		Fire of God
      and burn that none can quench [it],
    		Cast into fire
      because of the evil of your doings.
    		 
    1. Ezekiel called people thorns
    		 
    1. Jesus was despised and so was Paul. The people of Zidon despised us
    		 
    1. Ezekiel 28:20 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 28:21
    		 
      Son of man, set thy face against Zidon, and prophesy against it, 28:22
    		 
      And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
    		 
      Behold, I [am] against thee, O Zidon;
    		 
      and I will be glorified in the midst of thee:
    		 
      and they shall know that I [am] the LORD,
    		 
      when I shall have executed judgments in her,
    		 
      and shall be sanctified in her............. 28:24
    		 
      And there shall be no more
    		 
      a pricking brier unto the house of Israel,
    		Briers
      nor [any] grieving thorn of all [that are] round about them,
    		Grieving
      that despised them; ------
    		Despised
      and they shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD. ...........28:26
    		 
    1. Again God called people thorns
    		 
    1. Ezekiel 2:1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. 2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.
    2. Ezekiel 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, [even] unto this very day. 2:4 For [they are] impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. 2:5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they [are] a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them. 2:6 And thou, son of man,

    Rebellious

    trangressors

    stiffhearted

      be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words,
    		 
      though briers and thorns [be] with thee,
    		Thorns
      and thou dost dwell among scorpions:
    		Briers
      be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks,
    		Scorpions
      though they [be] a rebellious house. 2:7
    		evil looks
      And thou shalt speak my words unto them,
    		 
      whether they will hear,
    		 
    1. Jesus Called people thorns
    		 
    1. We have the sower and the seed
    		 
    1. Mark 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns;
    		 
      such as hear the word, 4:19
    		 
      a. And the cares of this world,
    		 
      b. and the deceitfulness of riches,
    		deceitfulness
      c. and the lusts of other things
    		lust
      entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
    		unfruitful
    1. Paul called people thorns
    		 
    1. Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed,
    		 
     
      receiveth blessing from God: 6:8
    		people bear
      But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected,
    		thorns
      and [is] nigh unto cursing;
    		rejected
      whose end [is] to be burned. 6:9
    		cast into hell
      But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you,
    		 
      and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. 6:10
    		 
      For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love,
    		 
      which ye have shewed toward his name,
    		 
      in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
    		 
    1. Pauls Thorn
    		 
    1. II Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory,
    		 
      I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth:
    		 
      but [now] I forbear,
    		 
      lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [to be],
    		 
      or [that] he heareth of me. 12:7
    		 
      And lest I should be exalted above measure
    		 
      through the abundance of the revelations,
    		 
      there was given to me a thorn in the flesh,
    		Son of
      the messenger of Satan
    		Belial
      to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 12:8
    		 
      For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me12:9
    		 
      And he said unto me,
    		 
      My grace is sufficient for thee:
    		 
      for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
    		 
      Most gladly therefore will I rather glory
    		 
      in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 12:10
    		 
      Therefore I take pleasure
    		 
      a. in infirmities, because of people These are the thorns in his flesh
    		 
      b. in reproaches, come from people
    		 
      c. in necessities, people did not give
    		 
      d. in persecutions, comes from people
    		 
      e. in distresses comes from people
    		 
      for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 12:11
    		 
      I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12:12
    		 
     
      Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you
    		 
      in all patience,
    		 
      in signs, Does this sound like a wimpy sickly man with
    		 
      and wonders, bad eyes
    		 
      and mighty deeds. 12:13
    		 
      For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except [it be] that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.
    		 

    Acts 14:6 They were ware of [it], and

    fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, ====> All part of the State called

    and unto the region that lieth round about: 14:7 Galatia

    And there they preached the gospel. 14:8

    And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14:14 [Which] when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard [of], they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: ............. 14:19

    14:19 And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, Here come the Thorns who persuaded the people,

    and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city,

    supposing he had been dead. 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him,

    he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many,

    Derbe is a city in the state or Roman region of Galatia

    Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Galatians 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I [am]; If he had bad eyes would you want that for I [am] as ye [are]: ye have not injured me at all. 4:13

    Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;

    but received me as an angel of God, [even] as Christ Jesus. 4:15

    Remember he had just been stoned. They knew he had just raised from the dead. Paul was just raised from the dead. They were watching the miracle of his healing right in front of their eyes. That is why they received him as an angel.

    Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record,

    that, if [it had been] possible,

    ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    Galatians 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.


    If you were Jewish you would know the tradition and theology from the Old Testament "Thorns in the Flesh always refered to a Person" This time that person was satan.

    		 



    Posted by: Frederik

    But who sent Paul this tormenting angel? Was it Satan or was it God to keep Paul from becoming too proud?


    Posted by: akabezalel

    The last line of Jerry's post answers your question.

    If you were Jewish you would know the tradition and theology from the Old Testament "Thorns in the Flesh always refered to a Person" This time that person was satan.


    Posted by: Frederik

    Satan himself? I always heard it was one of Satan's angels.
    Where does the bible say it was Satan himself?


    Posted by: JG

    Again read the Word: It always explains who the messenger of Satan was.


    In the Book of Acts 19: Luke uses the words "After the uproar" (thorubos means noise clamor, turmoil, uproar, disturbance). Usually it is assumed this just means the uproar in the Roman theater in Ephesus (19:28-40). But it is very unlikely the matter ended there. At least Paul would have been arrested and made to explain himself. The mayor of the city quietened the crowd he then opened the court and they could call a "regular assembly" (19:38-39). So Demetrius would certainly have pressed charges. And Paul wrote that Alexander the coppersmith did Paul much harm (2 Timothy 4:14), probably with the support of the powerful guild of silversmiths.

    Paul said that his "Thorn in the flesh" was Demetrius and Alexander the coppersmith.


    All the people involved, and the circumstances which Paul mentions in his letter (2 Timothy 1:15-18, 4:6-21) fit an imprisonment (there were several, 2 Corinthians 11:23) in Ephesus.. Paul being "rescued from the lion's mouth" (2 Timothy 4:17) was in Ephesus not Rome. But "all who are in Asia have turned away from me" (2 Timothy 1:15) certainly points to an imprisonment in Ephesus, (as do the references to Epaphras and the letters Tichicus carried (Colossians 1:7, 4:12-13, 15-16, Philemon 23).

    It therefore seems likely that Paul was arrested after the riot in the theater, charged on the evidence of Alexander the Coppersmith, and thrown into the arena where he faced a lion. This did not require a Roman soldier to execute him, and his death could be explained as an act of God. Presumably the lion's mouth was stopped (Hebrews 11:33, as in Daniel 6:22), and as a result Paul was declared innocent and immediately released. And Paul, who had assumed he was about to die (2 Timothy 4:6-8), wrote a postscript to the letter (2 Timothy 4:9-18) in which he reported that this event was witnessed by thousands in the arena and the message was "fully proclaimed" in the city and all over the province.

    Paul was hunted down from city to city. That was the thorn in his flesh.[/B]
    They wipped him 5 times.
    They beat him with rods three times.
    They stoned him to death more than once.
    They chased him every where he went.
    He almost never had any peace.
    [B]That was the Thorn.

    He had just healed a man who was crippled from birth and look what these people did that followed him.
    ACS 14:19 ¶ And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city, supposing he had been dead. 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.

    Isn't it wonderful how the Word always has the answer if you look.


    Posted by: Frederik

    The thorn was people attacking him?
    Then why do many christians say the thorn was an angel from Satan? Every christian says something different.

    Also the German bible says Satan's angel [Satans Engel] and not Satan's messenger.

    2.Kor 12:7

    7 Und auf daß ich mich nicht der hoher Offenbarung überhebe, ist mir gegeben ein Pfahl ins Fleisch, nämlich des Satans Engel, der mich mit Fäusten schlage, auf daß ich mich nicht überhebe.


    Posted by: JG

    Satan or a demon from satan moves on people to hurt other people.

    He moves on them to judge
    He moves on them to condem
    He moves on them to bring shame
    He moves on them to hurt
    He moves on them to seal
    He moves on them to destroy
    He moves on them to kill

    Just look at Iraq.
    The muslims call us the great satan yet they are the ones killing each other.

    The messenger from satan tempts people to do very bad things and they do.

    The people the messenger moves on to do evil become the thorn in the flesh to the Christian.


    Posted by: Frederik

    But my bible doesn't say this. This is adding meaning to the scripture. My bible says Satan's angel. I can of course interpret it and think what this might mean but this doesn't mean it's correct.
    And why can Satan's messenger not be a demon or a fallen angel? This is very well possible, too.
    I also looked up the passages where the english bible uses "thorn" and I compared them to the german bible and in the German bible it has a totally different meaning and not the german equivalent of the english word "thorn" is used.


    Posted by: JG

    Quote:
    But my bible doesn't say this. This is adding meaning to the scripture. My bible says Satan's angel. I can of course interpret it and think what this might mean but this doesn't mean it's correct.
    And why can Satan's messenger not be a demon or a fallen angel? This is very well possible, too.
    I also looked up the passages where the english bible uses "thorn" and I compared them to the german bible and in the German bible it has a totally different meaning and not the german equivalent of the english word "thorn" is used.



    Then your bible is wrong.
    G4647skolops, skol'-ops; perh. from the base of 4628 and 3700; withered at
    the front, i.e. a point or prickle (fig. a bodily annoyance or
    disability):-thorn.


    Posted by: Frederik

    I checked 2 german bible versions looking for which word they use in judges 2:4 to describe "thorns" and they used the german words for "scourge" and "rope" and not the german word for thorn.

    Basically the german Luther bible says this in judges 2:4 (when I translate it into English)

    And I spoke: I don't want to run them away from you,that they become to you like ropes and their gods like meshs.

    Maybe Luther messed it up...


    Posted by: pickone

    I remember my Grandmother telling a story about one of us telling her that the reason we have stickers (goatheads, burrs, nettles) was because God cursed the ground. This was such a delight to her. She said she'd never thought of it that way, but supposed it was true.


    Posted by: JG

    So you see my friends:

    One of the most thrilling verses in the bible on this is

    2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me. 2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];


    So we see Paul was never never sick.
    He said to the Galations
    you received me as an Angel from God
    even Jesus himself.

    You would have plucked out your eyes for me.
    Because he had just been raised from the dead two days before.
    The had stoned him and his body was being healed.

    In 2Tim 3:11 when Paul was writing to Timothy he said :
    Quote:
    at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me.


    God delivered me from them ALL
    ALL MEANS ALL

    So yes Paul said that his "Thorn in the flesh" was Demetrius and Alexander the coppersmith.

    But God delivered him from them for His honor and glory.

    Jerena please know God want us to pray for the sick not for the thorn.


    Posted by: JeriRose12

    I remember it as "a messanger of Satan to buffet him." A messanger of Satan sounds like a demon. I figured it was a demon who stirred up trouble (causing them to beat him, stone him, etc.) wherever he went

    I do pray for the sick. But if the thorn is people, shouldn't I pray for them to get saved and quit persecuting Christians?

    I get the feeling you are saying we should never be sick. If that is the case, why do Christians get sick or deal with physical pain -- even as you did recently? It is fine to say that Paul's thorn in the flesh was not physical infirmity, yet, no-one can explain to me why I am going through all the problems with scoliosis, arthritis, etc. I do not think Paul's thorn in the flesh was physcial infirmity, because the Bible does not say it was. I do want to know why some of us go through stuff for YEARS....if Christians are not supposed to have physcial infirmity. I have been trying to understand this for YEARS, yet no-one can explain it to me. I am not asking what lesson this is teaching me, because I don't believe God teaches us lessons through sickness. I simply get frustrated because preachers use the "messanger of Satan to buffet him" passage to tell me that Christians shouldn't be sick or infirm. Yet, I am, and I have prayed and prayed for healing....Not complaining at God, just don't get how people can preach that a Christian is never supposed to be sick. If a Christian isn't supposed to be sick, then why do I struggle through physical pain EVERY DAY of my life? Their are references in the Bible to Christians being sick, like Timothy being left sick and Paul saying to him "Take a little wine for your stomach." I feel like a certain group will call me a heretic for even making such comments. I am not saying any of this to be contrary, arguementative or the rest. I truly do not want to continue in this pain, and I need the breakthrough to healing.

    Be patient with a struggling Christian. Help me to understand.

    ~JeriRose~


    Posted by: Rachel R

    God's answer was, "My grace is sufficient for you."

    I thought the thorn was illness in his eyes that he had been suffering from ever since God struck his eyes on the road to Damascus.

    I thought that when God answered that his grace was enough, Paul was healed.

    I battle for health daily, and I would like to have it gone once and for all.

    It is not gone yet.

    My battle goes along two lines.

    Understanding my disease and fighting it on all fronts.

    Taking dominion over my body and believing in the healing that Jesus long ago bought and paid for.

    I have gained LOTS of ground and I am WAY better.

    I can't wait until God explains all this to us.

    We'll have plenty of time to understand.

    Rachel R



    Posted by: Rachel R

    Thorn con't...

    I can't imagine how the thorn could have been people.

    The purpose of the thorn was so the amazing experiences wouldn't give him the big head, and as a good Pharisee, that is always a threat.

    It seems like that if it had been people that resisting them would make him proud, not humble.

    Fighting people is what Pharisees live for.

    (Take me, resisting this teaching right now! )

    But really, I think the only thing that would qualify as a weakness in Paul had to be something visibly wrong with his body.

    It is so often true that blessings are hidden behind an offense.

    When God puts someone or something out there people tend to jump on and worship the person/thing instead of God.

    So sometimes God puts something difficult there, something that we KNOW is not God and not worthy of worship, to reaffirm their humanity and the imperfection of this life.

    Sometimes it is strange hair, clothes or mannerisms. Sometimes it is as simple as the sound of their voice.

    I'm sure Paul was pretty appealing, but I think the thorn expressed his not-God-ness.

    It is not easy to make a Pharisee humble!

    Rachel R


    Posted by: JG

    Dear Jerena:

    I was wondering if you saw my answer about pauls eyes.

    After Checking some more he was only in Derbe for a few days.
    So they saw his eyes healed in just a few days.

    This is what I posted yesterday in another forum.
    I am adding it here because I thinks it helps.
    I hope you find this as interesting as I did.


    Pastor Jerry


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeriRose12
    It says in Galations that he knew they would have plucked their eyes out and given them to him. So obviously he had bad eye sight or eye problems. How can I change that scritpure? It also says that they know he preached to them because of physical infirmity "at the first" (so he could have been healed of it). It plainly says this in Galations 4:13. I am not referring to the "messanger of Satan to buffet him" passage. But I don't say any of this to prove a point or get into a long discussion. In fact, with a possible move looming, I don't have time. I simply found this in my recent reading of Galantions, and it is a graet encouragement to me, since I obviously still deal with physical infirmity. I never said this was teaching me a lesson, either. I have no idea what the pain is for.

    ~Jerena~



    Jerena: Please read all of this
    Paul was so wonderful when he gave us this discription of his battles.


    Acts 14:6 They were ware of [it], and
    fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, ====> All part of the State called and unto the region that lieth round about: 14:7 Galatia
    So you see when he was in Lystra and Derbe that was Galatia.

    And there they preached the gospel. 14:8

    And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14:14 [Which] when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard [of], they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: ............. 14:19

    14:19 And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, Here come the Thorns who persuaded the people,

    and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city,

    supposing he had been dead. 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, (Derbe) and had taught many,

    Derbe is a city in the state or Roman region of Galatia it is 35 miles from lystra. They had no cars in those days so even on a horse it would have taken all day to get there

    Now Paul is writing to the people in Derbe...
    Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    Galatians 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I [am]; for I [am] as ye [are]: ye have not injured me at all. 4:13
    If he had bad eyes would you want bad eyes also.

    Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first means for a short time. 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, [even] as Christ Jesus. 4:15

    Remember he had just been stoned. They knew he had just raised from the dead. They were watching the miracle of his healing right in front of their eyes. That is why they received him as an angel.

    Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record,
    that, if [it had been] possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
    (The words "at the first" mean for a short time.
    They were watching the miracle of his healing right in front of their eyes.)

    4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
    Galatians 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
    (This means the Letter Galations is a large letter. Remember they did not have computers in those days.)

    So you see my friend:
    I just love it when the bible explains itself. Now one of the most thrilling verses in the bible on this subjece is:
    2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me. 2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them];

    Remember he had just been raised from the dead just two days before.
    They had stoned him and his body was being healed miraculously.

    In 2Tim 3:11 when Paul was writing to Timothy he said :
    Quote:
    at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me.


    God delivered me from them ALL
    ALL MEANS ALL
    God delivered him from them for His honor and glory.

    Paul said be as I am Gal 4:11
    They said Paul spoke like a God.
    Acts 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker

    When Paul laid hands on people the power of God came down
    Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
    Special Miracles were done by God throuch Paul
    Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
    Paul was so anointed that if a piece of cloth was laid on him it would have the power of God to heal and deliver any it came in contact with.
    Act 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them

    Don't you think the same anointing to heal would be on him.

    This is the Paul I know. He was so anointed that before He died the whole house of Ceasar had heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Phl 4:22 All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.
    In Paul's last years of life he was chained every day, 24 hours a day to two Roman Guards. They got saved and wanted to be chained to paul. Every 6 hours they changed the guard. By the time Paul was done almost the whole household of Caesar got saved.

    Now this is the Paul I know. A mighty apostle of God. Filled with the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues almost all day. Praying for the saints. Sending healing cloths around the world and writing letters to the church as God directed.

    Paul was so anointed when a snake bit him he put it where it belonged, in the fire. Because he was not harmed the whold island got saved and healed. Now that is the Paul I know.

    The devil wants to paint him as some sickly man who stuttered and had a hump on his back. God forgive them.




    Jerena and all the rest of you my friends please know God want us to pray for the sick not for the thorn.

    Pastor Jerry


    Posted by: JeriRose12

    Yes, I read your post.

    But while people defend Paul as not having a physical infirmity....of which I never said he did, except the eyes, which he said "at the first" meaning he was healed.... No-one will answer me this question: How come I deal with physical infirmity every day? How come all Christians today aren't healed and well? Where is the Paul the Apostle that the anointed cloth is to be laid on for my healing in this day? I have anointed cloths, and I do lay them on my body....but still I am in pain. I am frustrated with this doctrine in the church that says no Christian should ever be sick or infirm....and if we are, we have done something wrong (not enough faith, sin in life).

    What confuses me is, I never once even mentioned healing in my origninal comments that led you to post on Paul not having an infirmity. I wanted to know how one knew how to pray the will of God in a situation like where one should live....How did one declare the will of God to be coming to pass for them, if one did not know what the will of God was? It had nothing to do with God's will regarding healing. By His stripes we ARE healed, so it IS His will to heal. I have no arguement with that....just wonder why some of us have to wait so long for the manifestation. I still never got the answer to my original question. In areas that are not stated clearly in the Bible (such as where one should live), how do we know the will of God so we can pray it in? Perhaps, this is another lesson. Do you have a lesson on this?

    As to my healing, I believe God has a timing. I certainly don't understand why I go through this....and I can't find any lesson I am learning from it.... except I wish I didn't have it. I really, honestly am OK with not understanding. I don't stress myself over it. I had to give up on that. And I refuse to accept the condemnation of "You're doing something wrong." I do live, daily, by "Your grace is sufficient for me," and "I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me." So even if Paul never meant that related to physical infirmity, it is something I use to get through the days when the pain is accute or the wrists not working so well, etc.

    God bless you for imparting scripture to us more clearly.

    ~JeriRose~
    In HIM in 2007


    Posted by: JG

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeriRose12
    Yes, I read your post.

    What confuses me is, I never once even mentioned healing in my origninal comments that led you to post on Paul not having an infirmity. I wanted to know how one knew how to pray the will of God in a situation like where one should live

    As to my healing, I believe God has a timing. I certainly don't understand why I go through this....

    And I refuse to accept the condemnation of "You're doing something wrong."
    ~JeriRose~
    In HIM in 2007


    Let's see where do I start:

    1: I will do a lesson on knowing the will of God. I hope you will like it.

    2: I never saw your post on where to live. I was responding to the people who had responded to you by saying sickness was a test from God and to pray for God's will in the matter.

    Actually I was defending you. Someone I don't remember who was not liking the way you prayed by using the WORD of God. So I was defending you by asking you to keep it up.

    3: I hope you believe I would never condemn you. You are a special woman whom I just know the Lord is storing up a huge reward in heaven for.

    We are in this battle together and Jan and I could not do this without faithful friends like you.

    Now as far as pain goes..
    Ask AKA what I go through..


    Jan and I feel blessed to have you as a friend and partner

    Pastor Jerry


    Posted by: eagle4him

    Is the "thorn" that Paul describes ( whether person, demon or angel) that tormented him a metaphor for the the actual "crown of thorns" put on Jesus's head?

    What about God appearing to Moses in a burning thorn-bush?

    And is this the same as the ram caught in the thorn bush provided for a sacrifice by Abraham in place of Isaac?


    Posted by: JeriRose12

    Sorry, I guess I missed that where someone criticized me for praying the Word of God, unless it was where I was praying they wouldn't live together or something.... I do get criticized as condemning in cases like that, and I am just telling them waht God's Word says. I wasn't sure where I was criticized in relation to praying The Word Of God related to healing.

    I am glad you think I have a great reward in Heaven. Because I feel certain camps of people would say something is wrong with me for being in chronic pain. I wonder if those with healing gifts (which I so desire to have healing flow through my prayers) are not greatly attacked physically.

    Sorry if I came off defensive. This has been one of the most confusing, toughest things I deal with. I can't seem to figure it out. Yet, I know God is in control, and He definitely gives me hope to go on, as I know He does you. One thing a person does learn through physical infirmity is that God is ALL we have to make it day to day. I told one guy who had arthritis that Jesus was the only way I made it. He gave up on God because of his pain.

    I can't imagine what you must go through with so many conditions that hit you all at once. I am praying and believing that this all ends for you. I know a lot of healing has occured (in your body), but waiting for the complete manifestation is the hardest thing one goes through. I can't relate to those who say they are never sick and so on. But I keep on praying to get totally, 100% healed for you and for myself.

    ~JeriRose~
    In HIM in 2007


    Posted by: eagle4him

    I just received revelation about the thorns that I would like to share. I was asking God about this recently as I came into contact with one of my "thorns". God said, yes His grace is sufficient, that He allows these thorns to prick our "flesh" so as to remind us that we are not to respond in the "flesh". It is discomfort that sends out eh warning signal, and cautions us how to react. If the flesh was comfortable, then we would allow it to dictate how we respond, thus He allows thorns to keep us humble.

    thank You Lord, for sending me thorns to remind me of You and Your grace, of cautioning me that something needs attention.

    It's like walking with a pebble of sand in your shoe!


    Posted by: guardianangel

    Do you think that the person was someone that Paul was talking about was a person that Paul desperately tried to like, and no matter what, still irritated him?

    There are some persons that it does take more grace to be around...
    not something to be proud of, but it happens.


    Posted by: Christian Commando

    No, in that instance, it had been Satan, who chose to have a demon influence a person to intentionally cause problems for Paul. But God allowed it to be done in such a way Paul was reminded to stay humble and not become puffed up- ("lest I should be exalted above measure."), (My Grace is sufficient for thee.)

    For the way Paul spoke of "Love", it is quite clear Paul had the "Love of God" in him to be capable of loving all people- (II Cor. 12:15). You can be sure, Paul had not asked God to remove the person irritating him, but the influence over the person to act and speak that way.

    "messenger"- Grk" 32- angelos- angel, messenger; human as in John the Baptist, or his two sent to Jesus or the supernatural class that serves God, the angel- angel [96], angels- [80], messenger- [4], messengers- [3], angel's [2].

    Thus, the "thorn" was the person who was used by the "messenger- (fallen angel of Satan), to "buffet" Paul. And he saught God 3 times for this messenger to depart from him- II Cor. 12:7-8.

    God Bless!!