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islam's purpose is...

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Posted by: Rockrz

the same thing hitler and stalin wanted...world domination!

satan drives islam, and he can't use this un-Godly, false religion to control the work because the followers of Jesus Christ won't let him!

islam is falling...


Posted by: Frederik

You are right about the world domination.
But actually the Islam is on the rise.


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
But actually the Islam is on the rise.
Not from where Jesus is seeing things from...according to Him islam and all false religions are on the downhill slide.

The great sweeping of souls into the kingdom of God has already begun!


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. And Christianity's goal is also world domination according to the Bible
Jesus has ALREADY inherited all things!

We are coming to the end of the "season" of Adam's authority...the authority that was given to satan which enabled him to become the god of this world.

satan is the one who is doing his best to drive people into islam, which is a carnal religion that is ruled by satan.

The season will be over soon and Jesus will be King of the earth, and islam will be locked away, and eventually cast into everlasting flames.


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osomir
Why would eternity and for ever need a plural form?
Because God does have different ages and seasons... and during them all, for all of eternity, the devil and his angels and all those that rejected Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will be buring in hell for ever!

It ain't purdy, but it is the truth!

Besides, if you were a Christian you wouldn't even have to concern yourself with this issue....are you a born-again Christian?


Posted by: akabezalel

No Rockerz he is not a Christian by his own admission. He claims to be agnostic.


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osomir
Do you honestly think that one can do anything in this finite lifetime that warrents infinite punishment?
Yes...rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Sounjds like you've got that covered.


Posted by: Rockrz

Yes, everyone in hell believes that Jesus is Lord.
It's just too late for them to receive salvation now.

Even the devil believes Jesus is the Christ.
That doesn't mean there is salvation for him.

Whatever, dude....you just go on and believe what you want to.
God's Word says that if you reject Jesus, you will be dammed.


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
If so then God can't be all powerfull
Oh, He's all powerful alright...the thing that you don't understand is He can never lie.

So, when He gave mankind free will (the right to choose), He has to honor that, otherwise it would make Him a liar if He didn't. He has no choice but to allow you to reject Jesus and salvation.

This is why you will burn in hell forever if you reject Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior! God will (meaning He has decided) never use His power to FORCE you to receive His love and His salvation.

This is how the Creator is different from allah.
allah, is the god of this world...satan, who seeks to FORCE islam on all people and FORCE them to become muzlim.

That's not how the real God works.
allah is a tyrant, because allah is satan!


Posted by: Dylith

If Islam's goal has always been world denomination I wonder why early Islam didn't even allow non-Arabs to convert. I would also be inclined to wonder then why forced conversions to Islam are prohibited in the Qur'an.


Posted by: Rachel R

World domination is not accomplished by conversion.

It is accomplished by taking over the territory of others.

Others who aren't there anymore.

Rachel R


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel R
World domination is not accomplished by conversion.

It is accomplished by taking over the territory of others.

Others who aren't there anymore.

Rachel R

Hmm interesting, because the arabic empire was built on religious pluralism. In fact, Islam was a minority religion in many of is provinces such as Iraq which was mostly Nestorian Christian and had the Jewish people's as the second largest group. Both groups lived there throughout the Arabic empire. They were allowed to govern themselves and were allowed to convert if they were Arab and they were allowed to fight in the army only if they were Arab.


Posted by: Rachel R

Like I said, others who aren't there anymore.

Rachel R


Posted by: Rachel R

Does the European Union know that it has become 'occupied' by Islam?


Rachel R


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel R
Like I said, others who aren't there anymore.

Rachel R

What do you mean? There are many Christians and Jews that live in the middle east. The entire religion was founded on religious pluralism. Under Sharia law Muslims are not to harm "people of the book" aka Jews and Christians. They are not to be held under Sharia law either.


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel R
Does the European Union know that it has become 'occupied' by Islam?


Rachel R

Care to elaborate?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Dylith-

I would not suggest that the E.C. has become occupied by Isam, as have not researched that. But, I would suggest you look thru the videos Pastor Jerry has here on the Muslims, as well as his lessons given on the Muslims to see the evidence that proves, in thier sacred doctrine, there are scriptures in the Quran that tell the followers to kill others.

It's there, you just have to take the time to read it.

Thank you for your time-


Posted by: melmel465

Just want to clear a few things up:

1) "Islams purpose is the same thing Hitler and Stalin wanted, world domination!" - Rockrs
I don't even know where to start with this, it is so utterly untrue. You are getting this idea from the extremists of the Islam religion. Islam itself is an extremely peaceful religion. Yes, they wish to convert everyone to Islam, but they do not wish to force it. Christians want to convert everyone to Christianity, don't they? That's why there are missionaries. The U.S. Muslim Religious Council issued a Fatwa against terrorism that states, "Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives. There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism." Islam is not trying to take over the world; extremists are.

2) "Satan is the one who is doing his best to drive people into Islam, which is the carnal religion of Satan."
Extremists are being lead by Satan. Islam is not the carnal religion of Satan. Islam is extremely peacefull. Muhammad said, "Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well, and that if they do wrong you will do wrong to them. Instead, accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong even if they do evil." Sounds alot like Jesus saying "Turn the other cheek."

3) "...That's not how the real God works. Allah is a tyrant, because Allah is Satan!"
I don't know if you know this, but "Allah" is just the Arabic word for God. Since the Qur'an is spoken aloud in Arabic, God is called Allah. If you go to the Middle East, you will see Jews and Christians praying to Allah. It is simply their native language's word for God. Muslims pray to the same God Christians and Jews do, and even acknowledge Christians and Jews as 'people of the book,' The SAME book. The SAME God.

4) "Evidence proves, in their sacred doctrine, there are scriptures in the Quran that tell the followers to kill others. It's there, you just have to take the time to read it."
Yes, I agree, there ARE passages in the Qur'an that say to kill others, to kill enemies and unbelievers. I have one question: Have you ever looked at the Bible? Let me give you a few passages:
A) “If anyone secretly entices you- even if it is your brother, your father’s son or your mother’s son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend - saying, “Let us go worship other gods,”... Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people.” Deuteronomy 13:6 - 13:10
B) “He that sacrifices unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.” Exodus 22:20
C) “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34

Bottom line is that Islam is a peaceful religion. It is the extremists that are trying to “take over the world.” Do not base your knowledge of Islam on the acts of extremists. Would you want people to base their idea of Christianity on the Christians that kill abortion doctors and homosexuals? Each and every religion has extremists. Look at the core of the religion, at the origin, at the majority of the people that practice it. I assure you, Muslims as a whole do not wish to kill others or obtain world domination.


Posted by: Rachel R

My comment on the European Union was about the numbers of Islamic people that are migrating there.

In the democratic process of majority rule, they will someday rule.

Rachel R


Posted by: Christian Commando

melmel465-

If you'll pardon my interjection here, your observation is quite astute about Muslims, but, still the fact remains there is clear evidence in the quran that followers are told to kill enemies of them.

The fact is, all religions have extremists, but the Christian religion, if followed correctly as literally written, "vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord", prohibits God's Children from killing anyone. Why? "Thou shalt not kill". One of the 9 moral commandments.

Now, as stated before, Pastor Jerry has shown the proof of the Muslim religion teaching followers to kill enemies of them, in several ways, by video and teachings, showing actual Quran scriptural references.

This subject can go on forever, if people will not take the time to view such evidence and see the proof.

Extremists in this case with Islam, has little bearing when consider the major religion the citizenry follows, concerning doctrine. Regardless of who started the beliefs, the one about killing people is in the Quran.

There is no defending a religion or people who follow such beliefs as the Quran contains, to a rightceous end. And besides, Jesus Christ to Muslims is only a prophet. So, they cannot be believing in the same Jesus Christ of the Bible anyway.

Jesus was called by a title that proves, thru Greek translation, He was- "God in the flesh". And Jesus Himself declared "I and My Father are one", using the title- "I AM" consistantly, which means- "God". How?

When Moses asked God- "Who should I say sent me-(before going to the Egyptian Pharoah), God declares to Moses- say- "I AM that I AM sent me".

Thus, the proof is already there in itself, Muslims and Mohamad do not believe in the same God Christianity does.

Thank you for your time.


Posted by: melmel465

Christian Commando:

I do agree that the Qur'an has many passages that tell Muslims to kill the unbelievers. My point was that the Bible has those passages too! I have read 55 pages of the Qur'an, not very many, but they were exerpts from these books: The 'Imrans, Women, Abraham, Al-Hijr, Mary (Jesus' Mother), The Spider, and The Creator. I have read the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Isaiah 39:8 (926 pages in my Bible). I discovered that the Qur'an is extremely similar to the Bible. Both talk about killing others. I can not count how many times God killed people in the Old Testament, killed women and children, or ordered people to be killed. There are many times in Psalms when God instructs people on warfar and how to kill their enemies, just like in the Qur'an.
Muslims follow three sacred books: The Old Testament, The New Testament, and The Qur'an. They believe that when the world comes to an end, Jesus will be there and all Muslims will follow Him at that time. They believe that Jesus was so special, he was not allowed to be crucified and was risen up by God into heaven as his enemies drew close. Jesus is mentioned 93 times in the Qua'ran and even tells details of his life that were not in the Bible. There is a whole chapter in the Qur'an about Mary, Jesus' mother. No, they do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, or Son of God, but they respect him just the same as a great prophet. Your comment on the Christian religion prohibiting killing others by the 9th commandent is correct. You do forget, or maybe do not know, that Muslims believe in these same commandments. They acknowledge Moses as a prophet and acknowledge the ten commandments. Therfore, Islam prohibits killing of others also.
Islam was created in the 7th century by Muhammad but has its roots far in the past, way before Christianity. They believe that the chosen people were created through Ishmael, Hagars son instead of Isaac, Sarahs son. Both Abraham's sons. This is where Judaism and Islam split. So far, Jews and Muslims are following the same God. They just think the other son is the true child of Abraham through which the chosen people are descended. They believe in the same God.
Christianity is born with the life of Jesus. Christians and Jews believe in the same God, do they not? Jews just do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, they, like the Muslims, believe that he was another Prophet. So if Jews and Muslims worship the same God, and Christians worship the same God as Jews, Muslims and Christians also share the same God. The difference lies in three people: Ishmael, Isaac, and Jesus. The God is the same. The views on who God meant to be the chosen people and who God meant to be the Messiah is the only difference here.
I just beg all of you to please realize that Islam is not a hugely violent religion. It is a peaceful one, much like Judaism and Christianity. It is the extremists that take verses from the Bible and from the Qur'an about killing others and use it to justify horrible, horrible acts. Please read both the Qur'an and the Bible completely. I am working on this right now, and I am coming to the conclusion that both books have verses about killing others without mercy, about how to conduct warfare. You can not possibly condemn Islam for having verses on killing others in the Qur'an without condemning Christianity for the same thing. Both books have those verses on killing others, on killing unbelievers.

I thank you for reading my post and taking me seriously and also for taking the time to respond.


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Dylith-

I would not suggest that the E.C. has become occupied by Isam, as have not researched that. But, I would suggest you look thru the videos Pastor Jerry has here on the Muslims, as well as his lessons given on the Muslims to see the evidence that proves, in thier sacred doctrine, there are scriptures in the Quran that tell the followers to kill others.

It's there, you just have to take the time to read it.

Thank you for your time-

I have seen hany such videos and disagree with most of them. We must not allow our "dislike" for Islam impede our understanding of historial and theological Islam. instead of referring to the videos would you care to post some of the more convincing bits so that I may directly respond to them. It would be easier for discussion.

What parts do you find violent?


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel R
My comment on the European Union was about the numbers of Islamic people that are migrating there.

In the democratic process of majority rule, they will someday rule.

Rachel R

unlikely. Shaira law will probably not come into play in the EU unless a dictator is installed. There are so many different schools of thought with in Islam and their are no majorities. So I doubt that any one school will have enough followers to vote Sharia into power.


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
melmel465-

If you'll pardon my interjection here, your observation is quite astute about Muslims, but, still the fact remains there is clear evidence in the quran that followers are told to kill enemies of them.


Muslims may only fight defensively. Even then, the Al'Qur'an states that it is better to forgive and not fight back.

Quote:

The fact is, all religions have extremists, but the Christian religion, if followed correctly as literally written, "vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord", prohibits God's Children from killing anyone. Why? "Thou shalt not kill". One of the 9 moral commandments.

The word should actually be translated as murder. We know that God is ok with the killing of others simply by the fact that Moses was a huge warlord of his time.


Quote:

Now, as stated before, Pastor Jerry has shown the proof of the Muslim religion teaching followers to kill enemies of them, in several ways, by video and teachings, showing actual Quran scriptural references.

Could you post them here so that I may discuss them with you?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Dylith-

It's interesting how you bring up Old Test workings of God thru His people, when He has had His Children going thru a New Covenant avoiding discention for nearly 2,000 years.

Besides, you'll find where most of the waring going on in Old Test times were in defense, as with the Pharoah of Egypt chasing them to kill them, then God promising the Jews "canan" in order to have thierplace of rest.

Also, you mistake Moses as quite a "warlord", when it was God leading Moses, speaking directly to him for instruction. It was God, not Moses, providing the means for the survival and Blessing of His- "First chosen"-"Fig Tree", the Jews.

You are clearly wrong about God being "ok with killing people". He is not. He clearly shows in His Word, He loves all His creations and is slow in having Christ return, that as many as possible would come to know God's Truth and be saved from eternal death-( eternal seperation and torment).

And so, I'll re-iterate this point also- if my main computer program would allow me to get into the sub site listings given in postings, I would. But it won't let me.

Thus, I would have to search on other sites for this.

Thank you for your time-


Posted by: Dylith

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Dylith-

It's interesting how you bring up Old Test workings of God thru His people, when He has had His Children going thru a New Covenant avoiding discention for nearly 2,000 years.


Oh I agree. I understand the concept of the new covenant being raised Christian myself. However I also understand that God is eternal, he does not change, he is perfect. It is merely the laws of man that change. If God was ok with the killing of others back then, what makes you think he would feel any differently about it today? The notion that God suddenly had this life changing revelation and changed his mind about violence goes against the biblical assumptions of what God is.

Quote:
Besides, you'll find where most of the waring going on in Old Test times were in defense, as with the Pharoah of Egypt chasing them to kill them, then God promising the Jews "canan" in order to have thierplace of rest.

I am sure the cannanites didn't see Moses as a "defense only" kind of guy.

Quote:

Also, you mistake Moses as quite a "warlord", when it was God leading Moses, speaking directly to him for instruction. It was God, not Moses, providing the means for the survival and Blessing of His- "First chosen"-"Fig Tree", the Jews.

Exactly, which is why I made the claim that God must be ok with violence given certain circumstances. He was obviously ok directing Moses and his army to do it.

Quote:

He clearly shows in His Word, He loves all His creations and is slow in having Christ return, that as many as possible would come to know God's Truth and be saved from eternal death-( eternal seperation and torment).


I don't disagree with this, I think that God under Christianity will save everyone (I hold some universalistic beliefs with regards to Christianity).
But just because God is ok with violence under some circumstances doesn't automatically mean that he doesn't love all of his creation.

Quote:

And so, I'll re-iterate this point also- if my main computer program would allow me to get into the sub site listings given in postings, I would. But it won't let me.
Fair enough, I'll post some of the commonly used Verses to blaspheme Islam later and discuss them with you. I am sure they are probably the ones that come up in the video anyway.


Quote:
Thank you for your time-

And yours.