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Can a Christian Lose their Salvation? Can you lose your Salvation? Can I lose my

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Posted by: JG

Eternal Security is it of God
Can a Christian Lose their Salvation? Can you lose your Salvation? Can I lose my Salvation? Read the whole lesson before you make up your mind.
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EXO 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book

DEU 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
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"Eternal Security" is also known as "once saved always saved," or "perseverance of the saints." In other words, once someone accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, there is nothing that he or she can do to separate himself/herself from God, and they will always be saved. This is a false doctrine. The following passages show, without any doubt, that those who believe in Christ can fall away if they do not practice righteousness.

Bible texts that refute "eternal security"

Bible Text

Description Of Blood Bought Believer

Description Of Sin

Description Of Believer After Sin

Ezekiel 3:20; 18:24-26

righteous turns away, commits iniquity die in sin
EZE 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
EZE 18:24 ¶ But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, [and] doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 18:25 ¶ Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?18:26 When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Matthew 25:1-13

took lamps and went to meet Christ 5 were foolish "I do not know you"
Matthew 25:14-30

Christ's own slaves hid talent wicked lazy, cast into outer darkness, weep & gnash
Luke 8:13

receive word with joy, believe temptation, persecution fall away
LUK 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 9:62

put hands to plow of kingdom looked back to former life not fit for kingdom
LUK 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luke 12:42-48

steward in charge of Christ's servants beat slaves, drunkenness cut in pieces, assign with unbelievers
John 15:1-6

branches does not abide thrown away, dried up, burnt
JOH 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Acts 4:32;5:1-11

of those who believed lied to Holy Spirit God struck dead
Acts 8:9-24

Simon the sorcerer believed, baptized, received HS offered money heart not right, wickedness, gall of bitterness, bond of iniquity
Acts 20:17,28-30

elders, shepherds of church false doctrine drawn away
Romans 11:13-23

wild olive, grafted in v17, stand by faith V20 unbelief, not continue V20,22 not spared, cut off V21-22
ROM 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: ROM 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. ROM 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. ROM 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
1 Corinthians 9:26-27

Apostle Paul, But I keep my body in subjection: least.. I myself should be a castaway. body not slave Paul disqualified
1 Corinthians 10:1-12

standing (feel they are saved) V12 immorality, crave evil, grumble, fall V12
Galatians 2:11-14

Apostle Peter false doctrine, hypocrisy Literal Greek "stood condemned" V11
Galatians 5:4

severed & fallen indicates previously joined and standing seeking to keep OT severed from Christ, fallen from grace
GAL 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Amazing you were in grace now you lost grace. You were saved now you are not.
Galatians 6:1

restore indicates once saved caught in trespass needed to be restored
GAL 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
1 Timothy 1:18-20

Hymenaeus, Alexander: shipwreck indicates they once sailed good. rejected faith and good conscience, blasphemed their personal faith shipwrecked, delivered to Satan
1 Timothy 4:1

fall away indicates once saved false doctrine fall away from faith
1TI 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 5:8

passage addressed to Christians doesn't provide for family denied faith, worse than unbeliever
1TI 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
1 Timothy 6:10

passage addressed to Christians love of money wandered from faith, pierced selves with pangs
1TI 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
2 Timothy 2:16-18

Hymenaeus and Philetus: gone astray indicates once correct False doctrine: resurrection past gone astray, upset other's faith as well
Hebrews 3:12

brethren evil, unbelieving fall away from God
HEB 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hebrews 4:1-2,11

brethren, addressed to Christians unbelief, disobey short of God's rest, fall
Hebrews 6:4-8

once enlightened, tasted heavenly gift, partakers of HS, Bible & powers to come, renew indicates restore to former cleanness sin fallen away, can't renew, crucified Christ again and put in open shame
Hebrews 10:26-31

received knowledge of truth. no longer remains indicates they once had forgiveness sinning willfully no forgiveness of sin, fearful judgment
Hebrews 10:38-39

God's righteous, Christians shrinks back God has no pleasure in him, destruction
James 5:19-20

brethren, Christians strays from truth, sin soul will die in sins, sinner
JAM 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; JAM 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Peter 5:8

Christians sin devoured by devil
1PE 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
2 Peter 2:1

Christians, "among you" had been bought by Christ false prophets swift destruction
2PE 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 Peter 2:20-22

escaped defilements of world by Christ, entangled again, returns to mire indicates they were once untangled and clean, known way of righteousness, had washed entangled, overcome, turned away, returns to vomit/mire last state worse than first, better they never had became Christians
2PE 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2PE 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2PE 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2 Peter 3:17

beloved, Christians carried away, fall from own steadfastness
2PE 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 John 8-9

Christians, have accomplished not abide in doctrine, false doctrine lose, no reward doesn't have God
2JO 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 2JO 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Revelation 2:4-5

Christians in Ephesus left first love fallen, lampstand removed
REV 2:4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. REV 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelation 3:5

Christians in Sardis deeds incomplete are dead
REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Revelation 3:16-17

Christians in Laodicea lukewarmness spit out of Christ's mouth
REV 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. REV 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Topical organization of scriptures that refute "Eternal Security"

Parable of sower: Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13), "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away." Fallen from grace passage: Galatians 5:4, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Pruning passages: John 15:5-6, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Romans, 11:19-23, "You will say then, Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again." Hebrews Passages: Hebrews 6:4-6, "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."

Hebrews 10:26-27, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."

Hebrews 10:38-39, "Now the just shall live by faith: ; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul." Doctrinal Apostasy passages: Acts 20:17,28-30, "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church...I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them."

1 Timothy 1:18-21, "fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander"

2 Timothy 2:16-18, "But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some."

1 Timothy 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"

1 Timothy 6:20-21, "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called knowledge-which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith."

2 Peter 2:1, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

2 Peter 3:17, "You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness."

2 John 8-9 "Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son."

Moral Apostasy passages: 1 Timothy 6:9-10, "But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang."

2 Peter 2:20-22, "For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, A dog returns to its own vomit, and a sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

James 5:19-20, "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins."

Revelation passages: Revelation 2:4-5, "'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 'Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent."

Revelation 3:5, 'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels."

Revelation 3:16-17, "So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 'Because you say, I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing, and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked." Old Testament passages: Ezekiel 18:24-26, "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die."


Other scriptural arguments that refute "Eternal Security"

The fact the Bible exhorts to faithfulness proves one can be lost:
  1. be "stedfast, unmoveable" (1 Corinthians 15:58).
  2. "For if these things be in you" (2 Peter 1:5-11).
  3. "we shall reap, if we faint not" (Galatians 6:9).
  4. "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Revelation 2:10).
  5. practice these things and God will be with you (Philippians 4:9).
Man has a free will: Joshua 24:15, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." The Bible clearly prophesied some would fall away: Acts 20:28, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" Christians are to restore the fallen: Galatians 6:1, "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

James 5:19-20, "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

Your name can be blotted out of the book of life:

Exodus 32:32-33, "Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book."

Deuteronomy 9:14, "Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they."

Deuteronomy 29:20, "The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven."

Psalms 69:28, "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."

Revelation 3:5, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." After God forgives your sin, you can lose your salvation by not forgiving others:

Matthew 18:23-35, "Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses."





Posted by: akabezalel

Thank You Jerry for posting this. I was loosely raised Southern Baptist and when I got Baptised by the Holy Spirit and joined an Assembly of God church, Eternal Security was the HARDEST issue to let go of! I did not want to face an eternity without God and the possibility of losing that security for myself or my children still makes my stomach churn. I have come to accept it as truth after a long hard battle with it. It still scares me.



Posted by: Sulten

Thankyou Jerry for making this post. It really spoke to my heart. I know these things are true,

Heavenly Father, I pray for all of us on this website that we will come to know these true principles in our hearts and minds and be firm and stedfast in keeping Thy commandments and watch and pray always that we are no deceived by the adversary and become careless, thinking we are saved and need not worry. I pray for enlightenment for every soul that is led to this site and make an intercessory prayer for their salvation and that they will come to know Thee and continue to repent every day and strive with all of their might, mind and strength to live the commandments every day. I ask this in Jesus Holy Name amen.



Posted by: Christian Commando

I agree Pastor, it comes down to freedom of will per person. While God declares no man shall pluck him out of His Hand, that doesn't mean we can't choose ourselves to fall away. There have been peoprts in the last few years showing the numbers of people from leadership roles to lesser ones in religions, leaving the faith. Many getting involved in well known practices of witchcraft. 'Nough said. Thanks Pastor. God Bless!



Posted by: Jiffypop

After reading your article on Eternal Security I became acutely aware that all the scripture quoted in the article, were never accurately translated. One must look at the whole context of the verse including tense, who was speaking and the circumstances surrounding the so called verses refuting the doctrine of Eternal Security.
As we as believers all agree, the Bible DOES NOT contradict itself. Therefore we must read the whole Bible with guidenance from the Holy Spirit in order to accurately interpert the meaning of each verse.
I point out one critical verse in the Gospel of John, Chapter 3 verse 16. Where in this verse does Jesus give any conditions for maintaining ones Salvation? Another is in John 5:24 which must be read with very much caution in order to accurately comprehend what the Lord is saying and in what tense He is referring.
Another example of our Security is in John 10:28-29 where the Lord states that no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's Hand. How can any "man" snatch himself out of His all powerful hand? It is impossible.
Yes, with all due respect to all of those who believe that they can loose their salvation, re- read all the scriptures that seem to say that one can lose there salvation, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth and these verses will suddenly become clear and you will realize that the Weslyan Doctrine of Salvation is very much in error.
I do agree that when believers backslide, they will suffer the same consequences as an unbeliever and they will also loose thier rewards in Heaven but their souls will not be sent to torment. In John 19:30, Jesus utters His last three words before giving up his spirit, "It is Finished". At that moment in time ALL sin past, present, and future, was washed clean for all those who put their trust in and believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. 1 John 5:13 states the following:
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life".
Did the writer add any conditions to this verse that would lead anyone to believe that they could or can lose their salvation? No!
Again, I say, does the Bible contradict itself? Again the answer is no.



Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffypop
After reading your article on Eternal Security I became acutely aware that all the scripture quoted in the article, were never accurately translated. One must look at the whole context of the verse including tense, who was speaking and the circumstances surrounding the so called verses refuting the doctrine of Eternal Security.

Oh my friend I hear your heart and feel your pain and concern. But God did not make a mistake with the verses above. To say all these verses do not mean what they say is interesting. When the bible says

men who have gone astray from the truth
You can not go astray unless once you were in the way

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith
They can not fall from the path unless they were on the path.

wandered away from the faith
You can not wander unless you were in

having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, A dog returns to its own vomit,
You can not turn away from something you were not in.

I will not erase his name from the book of life
Jesus Himself said He will erase some names out.

I do feel your pain but God always gives us free choice.
Why else would God ask us to confess sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffypop
I do agree that when believers backslide, they will suffer the same consequences as an unbeliever and they will also loose thier rewards in Heaven but their souls will not be sent to torment.

You have on scripture for this. It defies the justice of God.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffypop
In John 19:30, Jesus utters His last three words before giving up his spirit, "It is Finished". At that moment in time ALL sin past, present, and future, was washed clean for all those who put their trust in and believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour. 1 John 5:13 states the following:
"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life".

This is the banner verse for universalism.
IJohn said confess your sins.
Then God will forgive and cleanse.

If your understanding of "It is finished" was correct you would never have to confess and ask God to forgive you of any new sin.

I ask all of you to read the verses above and realize this is a two way love relationship, not just a one way from God to you.

A simple understanding of the Atonement and the Justice of God is
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

No where in the bible does it say God forgave your future sins.
That is why we must confess our sins.
No where in the bible does it say there is a different seperation for Christian sinners and non-Christian sinners.

When Jesus said it was finished he was saying all we have to do is come to Him now for forgivness not kill a lamb.

Every Jewish person knew this. Sin was very expensive. You had to offer a lamb for a sin offering and another lamb for a thanksgiving offering.

That is why we have 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Otherwise there is no need to confess.

Remember what the Lord said:
Deu 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
You must overcome to keep your name in the book.


[/QUOTE]



Posted by: Sulten

This is one of Pastor Jerry's great lessons in my view with great need. I hear many say from time to time, that their loved one is wading in sin, but that they "were saved" at some time past. No one can be saved in their sins whenever it was they confessed to know Jesus. It can all be given away and sold for a mess of pottage. Thanks for this sermon Jerry and just want to circulate it on the board again from time to time...



Posted by: neon

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG
Oh my friend I hear your heart and feel your pain and concern. But God did not make a mistake with the verses above. To say all these verses do not mean what they say is interesting. When the bible says

men who have gone astray from the truth
You can not go astray unless once you were in the way

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith
They can not fall from the path unless they were on the path.

wandered away from the faith
You can not wander unless you were in

having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, A dog returns to its own vomit,
You can not turn away from something you were not in.

I will not erase his name from the book of life
Jesus Himself said He will erase some names out.

I do feel your pain but God always gives us free choice.
Why else would God ask us to confess sin.


You have on scripture for this. It defies the justice of God.




This is the banner verse for universalism.
IJohn said confess your sins.
Then God will forgive and cleanse.

If your understanding of "It is finished" was correct you would never have to confess and ask God to forgive you of any new sin.

I ask all of you to read the verses above and realize this is a two way love relationship, not just a one way from God to you.

A simple understanding of the Atonement and the Justice of God is
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

No where in the bible does it say God forgave your future sins.
That is why we must confess our sins.
No where in the bible does it say there is a different seperation for Christian sinners and non-Christian sinners.

When Jesus said it was finished he was saying all we have to do is come to Him now for forgivness not kill a lamb.

Every Jewish person knew this. Sin was very expensive. You had to offer a lamb for a sin offering and another lamb for a thanksgiving offering.

That is why we have 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Otherwise there is no need to confess.

Remember what the Lord said:
Deu 29:20 The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
You must overcome to keep your name in the book.


[/QUOTE]
how come you didn't address John 10:27-29? Where it says that "no man can pluck them out of the Father's hand" and "they shall never perish" (He is talkin about His sheep who He knows and hear His voice.) If you are saved you are in the Father's hands. no one can pluck you out.....doesn't that include yourself?

Read 1 Corin.3:11-15 11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; andthe fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


This is a quote from your comment. "Jesus Himself said He will erase some names out."[U][I]I would like to how you come up with that. You can't just say that since Jesus said He wouldn't blot out someone He means that He'll blot out someone else. That's kind of like putting words in His mouth.


I'm just looking for answers on the issue of salvation. I don't know what I believe about salvation yet, so i'm trying to find answers. Please don't take offense to anything I wrote and I apologize if you did.



Posted by: eagle4him

Do Eternal Security
Proponents Really Believe
in Eternal Security?

Dan Corner (Evangelical Outreach)

[Permission is granted to duplicate this article in its entirety,
but only without additions, alterations or omissions of any kind,
including the author, ministry name and address at the end.]

An interesting concept comes up when one ponders what the non-Calvinist eternal security proponents believe about babies dying. They believe all babies that die go to heaven. They primarily base that on 2 Sam. 12:23. [In contrast, Calvinists believe non-elect babies that die go to hell. In other words, they believe in infant damnation.]

For the non-Calvinist eternal security proponent, that same baby that would have gone to heaven if he died, when he gets older and sins, needs to be saved (or born again) because he is now on the road to hell. Hence, that saved person at baby age, later in life lost his salvation and needs to get it back or into hell’s fire he will be thrown.

With this in mind, the eternal security proponents don’t really believe in eternal security as they adamantly teach, but they have never come to realize this fact. Again, the once heaven-bound person becomes hell-bound and needs salvation, in their own theology.

A Second Area

A final thought: It is also a fact that many eternal security proponents show they reject eternal security by their opposition to people such as us, who oppose their teaching, when they say we are unsaved. We have often heard over the years that we are unsaved merely because we reject eternal security. Hence, they are contradicting their own belief system because if we ever once had a true moment of faith in Jesus and became Biblically saved, then we are still saved regardless what we later believe about various issues, including eternal security. They cannot logically say we are unsaved because we oppose eternal security, for their own theology won’t allow it.

That same concept can be carried over to those who convert over to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism or Catholicism. The eternal security proponents cannot logically say the people in such groups are unsaved because of their present heretical beliefs, for if such ever had a true moment of faith in Jesus before becoming a Mormon, Catholic, Jehovah’s Witness, etc., then they are still saved. For them to say otherwise is to logically deny their own doctrine.

GOD BLESS YOU.



Posted by: Christian Commando

Dear neon-

You are quite astute at picking up on what I spoke of. But, what you may not realize is, God was speaking of no other person can pluck a Child of God out of His Hand.

What you had missed is Pastor Jerry's explaination that is clearly stated by Scripture, that the person themselves, not someone else removing them, can choose to walk away from God on thier own.

I pray this helps-



Posted by: releasingthefire

From all that you have just said, most of us don't stand a snowballs chance in hell to make it to heaven. Tell me, If I bumped my head and yelled out a curse word and forgot to ask the Lord for forgiveness and then got into my car and ended up in a head on collision and was killed instantly, would I go to hell? I don't understand how we are to have a loving relationship with the Father if we are always wondering whether or not He is mad at us. I know and believe that we are justified by faith and not by our works. (Ro. 4:3 and Eph. 2:8&9) It is not how good we are that pleases God. For without faith it is impossible to please Him.(Heb.11:6) Why are you pulling out old testament scriptures to prove your point? He gave us a new covenant. The old doesn't apply anymore. That was before the cross. It is our unbelief in the great salvation that He has given to us through His amazing grace that is the real sin. God is not so focused on our outward behavior as He is with what is in our hearts...belief or unbelief. If unbelief is in your heart then your outward behavoir will indicate that. Jesus said to the religious leaders, "for you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead man's bones and all uncleanness" and "Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness". Matt. 15:17&18 "Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? but those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man."
God is the one who cleans us up. We cannot clean up our own hearts. He is the one who births faith into our hearts to believe in Him. (1 Jn 5:4) That faith is believing that Jesus did all the work for us on the cross. All we have to do is keep believing that and hold fast to that belief and never let it go. That is the "rest" that He has provided for us. That is how we can have a loving relationship with the Father. A knowledge that we are completely loved and accepted by Him no matter what mistakes we might make from time to time. Matt.23:4 "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers."
My flesh will never be perfected, but my spirit is perfect because of His love and His grace. Jn. 6:63 "It is the spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing." He is our righteousness, for our own righteousness is as filthy rags.



Posted by: Christian Commando

releasingthefire-

What must be understood here is, when God speaks of how True Children of His can lose Salvation, He is speaking in terms of a change of attitude, from following God, to following satan in thier life.

An example would be the statistics of True Christians, ministers and all others, who first got saved and reborn, but at a later time, turned away from following God and went back to living according to the world.

We need to remember to always consider all Scriptures God uses in sharing His Truths, on a related subject. To think only one minor offense as the example you gave, is not of the greatest importance here, but the "whole picture" God gives us.

Particular Scriptures show more detailed understanding, such as- "In the latter days, some shall depart from the faith". This shows, these people leaving the faith must already be True children of God, or they could not be "leaving the faith".

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the Heavenly Gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghostand have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame".

this also clearly shows people who were True children of God, who fall away from God and go back to worldly living will lose thier Salvation and not be able to be accepted back.

Keep this in context tho, its not refering to losing it based on doing a sin and dieing, but in a change of heart to live not following God anymore.

God shows us in His Word, it is not works, but our heart that makes the difference wether we belong to God or not. Thus, it is the root of our heart for what we accept for following, which is demonstrated thru the works we do, as the "Fruit" we bear.

There is one unpardonable sin God does speak of, but that no true Saved and Reborn Child of God can commit. That is- Blasphemy against the Holy spirit. Why not if blasphemy against God or Jesus christ? Because, when become saved and reborn, the Holy Spirit comes to dwell within that person once adopted into God's Family. Thus, the Holy Spirit would never allow a True Child of God to do such a thing against Himself.

I pray this helps you understand, its the choice a person makes, of who to follow, satan or God, as God shows He will chastise His Children if stray, but if continue to walk away from God, He releases them over to satan and a premature death.

God bless!!



Posted by: JeriRose12

I read where someone said Jesus never made any reference to losing our salvationm that all we need do is believe, according to John 3:16. What about "Go and sin no more." After forgiving the adultress, SHE had a responsibility in her salvation -- sin no more.

We are not talking about someone who throws out a cuss word then dies before repenting. We are talking about someone who is living in willful sin, while saying they are a Christian. I know people who are having sex outside marriage, and they are saying they are a Christian....when the Bible says such people will burn in hell.

Would it not be more compassionate to warn people that they CAN lose their salvation, then to just sit idly by while they sin and say nothing, thinking "Once saved you're always saved."

19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19)

If we are turning a sinner BACK, does this not mean we are turning him BACK to someting he once posessed (salvation)?

The Bible says the following people will not make it into heaven:

9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

(1 Corinthians 6:9 & 10)


Yet, I know people who one time made a pofression of faith in Christ (professing with your mouth is part of salvation) who do these things. Are they going to heaven? The Bible says they will not.

And Jesus told many parables indicating we could lose our salvation. So, it's not true that Jesus made no such references.

How about the five foolish virgins?

How about the servant who thought the King wasn't returning and started beating his fellow servants?

How about the one forgiven much from the king, but he went out and wouldn't forgive the man who owed him very little, so he was thrown into prison?

How about the prodigal son? He was obviously once in right standing....but would he have been saved, if he hadn't come to his senses and returned repentant? If once saved always saved, why did he need to repent?

OK, this is very off the top of my head and quick....but I think there are probably more scritpures where JESUS referred to the possibility of losing our salvation.

Revelation 2:5 says that if we don't repent and return to our first love and do the things we did at the first, He will come and remove our lampstand from it's place (to the church at Eupheses, yet how acclicable to our lives).

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007




Posted by: releasingthefire

Matt. 22:29 & 31 Jesus answered and said to them, “you are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Let me help you to understand. You have taken Heb. 6:4 out of context and misinterpreted it. Lets start with verse 1. Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, NOT LAYING THE FOUNDATION FROM DEAD WORKS and of faith toward God, and then on to verse 4 -6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they (so to speak) fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. These verses are saying that we are not to continue in repentance from dead works. If we do we are putting Jesus on the cross again. If you have come into the revelation of His grace (unmerited favor) and His Holy Spirit and you know the power of God, it is impossible for you to fall away and be renewed again to repentance.
The Galatians has trouble with this. Gal 2: 16 -21 and Gal 3:1-3 “knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law NO FLESH SHALL BE JUSTIFIED, “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! “For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. “For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. “I do not set aside the GRACE OF GOD; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you; Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? ARE YOU SO FOOLISH? HAVING BEGUN IN THE SPIRIT, ARE YOU NOW BEING MADE PERFECT BY THE FLESH?
If anyone preaches a gospel different from this, let him be accursed. Gal. 3:10 & 11 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”
Glory to God! I have been set free from the law of sin and death. I can go boldly to the throne of GRACE to find help in time of need. My conscience is clean! I am completely and totally set free from all guilt of sin! Don’t you know that a guilty conscience separates you from Him? With a guilty conscience, it is impossible to know Him. He whom the Son sets free is free indeed! Why would I or anyone else want to go back into that heavy yoke of bondage? I am the apple of His eye. He is my Abba Father (my Daddy). I have complete assurance of my salvation and no one can steal that assurance from me.
The law does serve a purpose in that it reveals to us our need for His righteousness and His Holiness. But most of us have to go through some pretty hard stuff to finally come to that revelation. Many Christians leave the church and go back into worldly ways because it becomes too difficult for them to carry the burden of guilt that false teachings put on them. They figure that if they are sinners, it’s gotta be more fun to be sinners in the world than in a stuffy church. They have been lied to and deceived. They are sick of the hypocrisy and the religion. All they want is the truth. God will not hold that against them. Read Luke 11:52 and Jer. 23: 1-6 “THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS”
You can stop your strivings and enter into the rest that He has provided for you. He loves you. He is joyful and dances over you. You are the apple of His eye. He is calling you to come unto Him and enter into His peace and His joy, joy unspeakable and full of glory. That is something you can have now in this life. You don’t have to wait to go to heaven to have that. Those blessings are yours now. Just believe!
The sinners are the ones who have not come to the cross and have not believed in the complete work that His death on the cross has accomplished. That is repentance. Repentance is changing the way you think. When you come to the full revelation of the completed work of the cross in your heart, you become a saint, completely reconciled to the Father.
Amen.



Posted by: JG

Thank You My Friends for Your Passion:

Please re-read the chart above.

The only reason for posting this is to make sure you are right with the Lord.
Eternity is a long time to find out ooops you made a mistake.

I have met so many people who say they can
1: Live in adultery or
2: Be gay
3: Live on drugs
4: Go to xxx rated movies
5: Steal for food
6: Hate their ex spouse and many more

and still believe because they made a decision for Jesus when they were a child they are going to heaven. A lot of the above are prayers posted on this web site.

I love them to much to allow them to believe a lie.

There are over 45 verses on the chart above from the New Testament telling us about the ability of losing our standing with the Lord.

The only one who can snatch us away from God is ourselves.

Pastor Jerry



Posted by: cruz46

i dont know about everybody else but i have learned alot from your lessons it has opened my eyes to the truth about our Heavenly Father this is so awesome and uplifting.i backslid for years after the Lord had blessed me with a prison ministry the miracles that were done in that prison in Dayton,Texas were awesome and the deliverence were powerful something that i have had to live with since.i recently rededicated my life to the Lord and want my ministry back with all my heart and soul.please continue praying for me as i will continue praying for all of you.also my husband tom started going to church with me and the devil is mad mad mad the enemy has used other other people including one of his so jason to come between us.. please pray for jasons salvation he goes to clubs every weekend and calls my husband (his dad) to go and dance with other women he has also introduced his dad to other women.my husband is doing good now but still needs alot of prayer thank you so much and God Bless You



Posted by: Christian Commando

Lord-

We pray that you would drive off and keep seperate, these worldly temptations from this husband and keep his heart and mind solely on living for and serving you, thru a Ministry fit for this couple to serve you. Please bring Jason, thier son out of darkness and into your Lijt, for him to see the path he is on and where headed, that he might come to your Throne on his knees, repentant and seeking your Love, Mercy and most of all... Grace. In Jesus Name- Amen!!



Posted by: Sulten

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruz46
i dont know about everybody else but i have learned alot from your lessons it has opened my eyes to the truth about our Heavenly Father this is so awesome and uplifting.i backslid for years after the Lord had blessed me with a prison ministry the miracles that were done in that prison in Dayton,Texas were awesome and the deliverence were powerful something that i have had to live with since.i recently rededicated my life to the Lord and want my ministry back with all my heart and soul.please continue praying for me as i will continue praying for all of you.also my husband tom started going to church with me and the devil is mad mad mad the enemy has used other other people including one of his so jason to come between us.. please pray for jasons salvation he goes to clubs every weekend and calls my husband (his dad) to go and dance with other women he has also introduced his dad to other women.my husband is doing good now but still needs alot of prayer thank you so much and God Bless You

Dear Lord, I pray for Thy stength to be poured out upon Mary and her husband who are striving to turn their lives about and get them back where they need to be. I pray for a shield of protection against the fiery darts of the adversary to use any trappings to pull them back into their former condtion. I pray they can hang in there and be a force for good in the life of their son Jason. May he be brought out from the ways of the world and brought down into the depths of humility and prepare every needful thing to bring about Thy desires for this family, I pray in Jesus holy name, amen.



Posted by: rainbow788

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulten
Dear Lord, I pray for Thy stength to be poured out upon Mary and her husband who are striving to turn their lives about and get them back where they need to be. I pray for a shield of protection against the fiery darts of the adversary to use any trappings to pull them back into their former condtion. I pray they can hang in there and be a force for good in the life of their son Jason. May he be brought out from the ways of the world and brought down into the depths of humility and prepare every needful thing to bring about Thy desires for this family, I pray in Jesus holy name, amen.


Lord i pray in agreement for this family. may Your name be glorified in their lives. In the everlasting name of Jesus i pray, amen.