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did Jesus die spiritually?

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Posted by: Frederik

What do you think? I always thought that he did cause separation from God means spiritual death. Jesus asked why God left him, this means God separated himself from Jesus and this means that Jesus died spiritually. But there are christians which say this is wrong and that it's heresy. This really confuses me!
I do not believe Jesus went to hell. He went to sheol. But they say Jesus went to heaven! This makes no sense! Jesus was taken up to heaven after 40 days. He did not go to heaven, then return to earth with his new body and then go to heaven again...


Posted by: eagle4him

I believe the answer is no. There was a period of about three hours that God the Father turned His face from Jesus, it was the period of time that Jesus took upon himself the sin of the world. The entire earth was darkened during this period of time. I do not believe that Jesus died a spiritual death.
--Luke 23: 44-46

To die a spiritual death I believe means that your spirit is condemned to hell. Jesus did descend into hades and open up the gates. There were two parts to hades--one for good and one for evil. After the gates of hades were open, then I believe only heaven and hell were the two options after death. He then paraded all the enemy (satan and the fallen angels) around heaven and made a laughing stock of them.


Posted by: Frederik

But in order to be a sacrifice for us, humans, did Jesus not have to endure everything which we would have had to endure? And spiritual death also belongs to this! And just think of the garden of Eden.
This is where Adam and Eve died spiritually! Spiritual death = separation from God.
Jesus got separated. He shouted why God had left him.
This is the spiritual death! If this is not the spiritual death then what is the spiritual death? Going to hell is the second death!


Posted by: eagle4him

The second death is when a person dies spiritually and goes to hell. "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." Rev 20:14

The first death is when one crucifies his flesh and is born-again. This is the process for all human beings that receive salvation. Jesus was not born with the sin of Adam, as he was born of the virgin, Mary. As such, he did not inherit the curse that all who had been born from the seed of Adam inherited at birth.

Thus, Jesus did not have to be born-again, as He entered the world and left the world free from sin.


Posted by: Frederik

I cannot agree with this.
We are all born in a spiritually dead state. Tell me, if we are not spiritually dead then why are we separated from God and need to be born again?
Spiritual death = separation from God. What did God say to Adam? If you eat from this fruit you will surely die! Did Adam drop to the floor? No, he did not. He died spiritually.


Posted by: eagle4him

The spirtual death means loss of a personal relationship with God. Adam and Eve did loose this, but I contend that Jesus did not. Separation, or spiritual death comes through sinning--Jesus neither sinned, nor was He born with sin.

I am not sure exactly what happened to all the sins of man that Jesus took upon himself, but He imputed or spiritually took this upon Himself. He did not actually sin Himself, though.

God the Father did turn His face from earth and Jesus for 3 hours while Jesus took the sin of mankind upon Himself. The Father could not bear to see this huge penalty on Jesus. Jesus was not separated from God by sin or disobedience, but rather by choice as He carried the burden of sin to the grave.


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4him
The spirtual death means loss of a personal relationship with God. Adam and Eve did loose this, but I contend that Jesus did not. Separation, or spiritual death comes through sinning--Jesus neither sinned, nor was He born with sin.


Jesus died spiritually because of our sins!
Why do you think did he scream "why have you forsaken me???"
God could not look at him because of OUR sins!
Jesus had to go through everything which we also have to go through cause he died for us! This means Jesus had to experience it all!
Jesus because poor so that we may become rich.
He bore our sicknesses so that we may be healed.
He became a curse for us so that we may receive God's blessing.
And so on.
The bible also says that Jesus was born again by the holy spirit!
Why should he be born again when he did not die spiritually?
If he did not die spirirually, like you say, then all he did was die physically.
How do you think should this help us? Jesus had to go through everything which we had to go through in order to complete the sacrifice.


Posted by: eagle4him

Frederick you seem confused and misled. Confusion is not from God.

The bible clearly states that you cannot serve two masters. Had Jesus died spiritually He would have given His spirit over to satan. That just did not happen. He was part of one God with one Spirit, not 3. Therefore he could not possibly have had 1/3 spirit die. One God, One Spirit, Three persons!

Jesus was never born-again, or He then would have to have been justified by His own blood? Makes no sense!

Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once and for all."

By His body, not by His spirit!!!!!!!!!

Jesus offered His body and blood as a sacrifice for our sins. He became a sin offering, not the sin. Just like in the Old Testament when an animal was sacrificed for the sin, Jesus, too was sacrificed for the sin. Neither the animal or Jesus became the sin, but rather a substitutionary offering that paid the price for our sins. The wages of sin is death, and it was paid with the blood of the Lamb in both Old and New Testaments.

In Luke 23:46 Jesus commended His spirit to the Father. He did not commend His spirit (which is the same spirit of God the Father and the Holy Spirit) to the devil. His blood was and is sufficient sacrifice for all sins.

Jesus even stated "It is finished"! The cross was sufficient. Hell was never part of it.

The false doctrine that teaches that Jesus died spiritually thus denies the power of the blood of Jesus to make full atonement for our sins. This is nothing short of Heresy!

Jesus was not baptized with the Holy Spirit, since He already was God the Father and the Holy Spirit as well. To teach that Jesus was anything less than God would be like the teachings of the Mormons that Jesus was just a man.

The blood of Jesus made full atonement for our sins. No more and no less. Our salvation was not paid for by the spirit of God, but by the blood!


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4him
Frederick you seem confused and misled. Confusion is not from God.


Hold on a second! You might not agree with me but don't call me confused and do not call me misled, okay? This is impolite! I also did not call you confused!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4him

The bible clearly states that you cannot serve two masters. Had Jesus died spiritually He would have given His spirit over to satan.


Nonsense. Spiritual death = separation from God, okay?
Where was your spirit before you became a christian? Huh?
Tell me! It was not in Satan's hands. You were simply separated from God!
And if you had died without Jesus you would have gone to hell but your spirit was not in hell yet, otherwise you would have noticed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4him

Jesus was never born-again, or He then would have to have been justified by His own blood?


Explain this to me:

Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Act 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
Act 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

Here you see it.
This all refers to Jesus who was raised from the dead and who did not see corruption. What do you think does being raised from the dead mean?


Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4him
In Luke 23:46 Jesus commended His spirit to the Father. He did not commend His spirit (which is the same spirit of God the Father and the Holy Spirit) to the devil. His blood was and is sufficient sacrifice for all sins.

Jesus even stated "It is finished"! The cross was sufficient. Hell was never part of it.


I did not say Jesus went to hell to be tortured by Satan! A few preachers say this but not me! Read this here, this psalm from David refers to Jesus! It does not describe David but Jesus!

Psa 88:3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
Psa 88:4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:

Tell me, did David go down to the pit? No. So how could he write this?

Psa 88:6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
Psa 88:7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.

Jesus went down to the lowest pit and there he endured God's wrath.
David describes it all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle4him

Jesus was not baptized with the Holy Spirit, since He already was God the Father and the Holy Spirit as well.


Does this mean that when Jesus was on earth and prayed, that he prayed to himself and not to the Father in heaven?
Does not make much sense to me. Jesus was totally dependant on the holy spirit while he was here.
Jesus was cut off from God so that we can be one with him.It was the perfect trade-off.

Tell me, if Jesus was not born again, then what is Paul talking about?

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Posted by: eagle4him

The problem begins with your definition of spiritual death. You say spiritual death means separation from God. All sin separates us from God--that is a consequence of sin not the definition of it.

Sin is not following the laws of God, which is rebellion. Rebellion is the sin of witchcraft which honors satan.

Jesus never committed sin, He took our sins upon Himself, therefore He experienced the separation for 3 hours when God the Father could not bear to see His Son carry our penalty. Just like any loving father does not want to see their children suffer, especially for something they did not do.

False doctrines and teachings confuse "the elect". The bible warns us about these end times when many false doctrines and seducing spirits will entice people away from the truth. A false doctrine is born with a little truth, and a lot of emotion. One way to understand when a person is deceived by false doctrine is when the truth is exposed to the darkness, the person usually becomes angry.

This is when you need the Holy Spirit to guide you and to open your spiitual eyes and ears to understanding of the scriptures. This is when you need a revelation from God personally. The written word of God is merely the logos word, but the rhema word of God is when The creator of the universe sheds light on the scriptures and you get one of those "ah'hah" moments.

I am not accusing you or condemning you, but I do believe that you are following a path of a seducing spirit to get you off track. If I am wrong, then please forgive me.

Father in the name of Jesus I pray that Frederick and myself would come to a better understanding of these scriptures and the teaching of whether Jesus died a spiritual death or not. Open our eyes to see and our ears to hear the truth of these matters. Fill us with Your Holy Spirit to counsel and direct our thoughts. In Jesus name I pray!


Posted by: Frederik

Let's leave it with that, we simply have different opinions.


Posted by: Rmartel

How about this? Also we know that God does not look upon sin.
Rmartel


Posted by: Christian Commando

Did Jesus die a spiritual death? Absolutely Yes- Why? First, God's Word declares thru the Apostles Christ was in the "bowels of the earth" just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish. Second- Christ told a man hanging next to Him- "Today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise." If you were to look at the old original Hebrew meaning of the name for Hell it explains it had two compartments, one of torment, one of comfort. Why? Christ hadn't died for anyone's sins yet, thus those Jesus hadn't covered in payment of sin for, couldn't go to Heaven as yet. Since Christ's Sacrifice- "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord". Yet, remember, since our spirit is still bonded to our bodies, it is not cleansed until it seperates from the body at physical death. (Just like those who've died now, will return with Christ to be rejoined to thier ressurrected, "transfigured" bodies- "Corinth".- "And the dead in Christ shall rise first, then they who are alive shall rise with them and be changed, in the twinkling of an eye, to be forever with the Lord". So, if Christ hadn't died two deaths- physical and spiritual, our spirit, at physical death could never go strait to Heaven to be with God. Hope this helps- Take care and God Bless!