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question about marriage

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Posted by: el_star

is this true: according to the bible, it would be a sin for a woman to divorce her husband if neither of them cheated EVEN THOUGH he might have A) beaten her daily B)harmed their children either physically or sexually C) killed their child(ren) D)disrespected her in every other way except adultery. If anyone can shed some light on this subject for me, it would be very much appreciated.


Posted by: lburgess24740

Quote:
Originally Posted by el_star
is this true: according to the bible, it would be a sin for a woman to divorce her husband if neither of them cheated EVEN THOUGH he might have A) beaten her daily B)harmed their children either physically or sexually C) killed their child(ren) D)disrespected her in every other way except adultery. If anyone can shed some light on this subject for me, it would be very much appreciated.


The Bible does not go into specifics about these things but it says that a husband is to love his wife the way that christ loves the church, and that is definitely not what this husband has done. I don't think that any Christian would say someone should stay married to a man who did these things. And if this man harmed the children sexually that is about the same as adultery I would think.

Lynn


Posted by: jedijeb

I know Jesus said the only reason was adultry, at least between two Christians. Paul mentions that if an unbelieving spouse leaves a Christian the Christian is no longer under obligation. Sexual abuse of a child may be considered adultry but Im not sure. Also it only is sin if you remarry. The world has taught for so long that marriage is merely an agreement that can be left at will, and Christians have bought into that lie. This is why the selection of a mate is such an important matter, because it is meant to be for life. As Christians we are obligated to seek God's approval of our selection of a mate so as to avoid the pitfalls of divorce. We should not ask God to approve our choice, we should ask Him to make it. God has set forth some rules concerning marriage and they are some of the strictest of any because marriage is the very example of His relationship to the church. If a husband can leave a wife or vice versa without any consequences, then the church would be able to leave God without any. That can never be. Biblically the ONLY relationship that is more important than that of a husband and wife is that of the individual believer with God.

As far as physical abuse goes, divorce can happen, but unless it is written somewhere I haven't found yet, remarriage is not allowed. That is something I have struggled with believing for a long time, but I guess it comes down to having looked to God for the right choice of spouse before the marriage. I would like to say it is Ok to leave in that situation and remarry if you find a good spouse later, but that is myself talking and I can't justify it with scripture. Some things that God has set forth are hard to accept by imperfect humans, but a perfect God has said them and in Him lies the truth. Anyone who would abuse their spouse and call themselves a Christian really needs to examine wether or not they really are saved, I would be doubtful of it. Either way though, they should be punished severly because that would be showing the world that God can abuse the church, and that can't be, and woe is to the person who would set such an example, I would not want to stand in their shoes before God.

Above all due to the relationship which marriage is an example of, namely God to the church, it should be not only revered and respected, but also protected. We should pray for every marriage to survive, even if it takes great acts of forgivenness and love to maintain them. God's example of forgivenness to us should be our example of forgivenness to a spouse. God's love for the church should set an example for our love for a spouse. Only when you are ready to love without question and forgive completely anything, should you consider marriage, and then only after allowing God to choose your mate. His choice may seem totally wrong in our eyes, but God doesn't make mistakes.


Posted by: Ragamuffin

I am sorry that I don't have an answer, but I am only going to add more questions and maybe someone will find where the answer is in the bible. What if you came to know Jesus AFTER you were married? What if your husband doesn't fulfill your needs? What if he doesn't love you as Christ loves the church? I believe we are to continually show our love for Jesus in our lives...but when is enough really enough? When is it okay to move on? Why should one stay if one is hurting badly? I have read in the bible what the "rules" are - and I wonder about those in the church that are remarried - and they serve God - does God view them as living in sin? What if you fall in love with someone who was married before and left his/her spouse? What about children from another marriage? All these questions came to me as I was reading today and looking for the verse where Jesus says the path is narrow and few find it (the path to Jesus - chapter 7 in Matthew) and as I continued reading, I came across things that convicted me in my life, and I wonder where that leaves me, but then I go back to God knows my heart... I don't have any answers...


Posted by: cgirl

This verse comes to mind when I read your post.

Genesis 31:50 If thou shalt afflict my daughters, or if thou shalt take other wives beside my daughters, no man is with us; see, God is witness betwixt me and thee.


Posted by: woofytoyou

After I read this, I am once aware how judged, condemned, we feel when we 'fail' and do divorce whether Christian or not.
Even though Christ does have hard words for us to hear, if we do
go down the road of divorce, all is not lost.
The BLOOD OF THE LAMB was shed for even divorce, even those who
commit adultery , even for liars, or homosexuals. We have the Lord and
with honest repentence and humble hearts can have real
forgiveness of even divorce, abortion etc.
Doesn't mean we are to take any of the above lightly or do any
on purpose to spite the Lord. He knows the heart.
He knows the cry of the heart,, and His blood covers sin, any and
all sin.
That sounds like skimming over, but the words go deep. Divorce is
like death. The heart dies in a marriage when the rock of hardness and hate enters your partner and unforgiveness and blame rocks the soul.
Thank the Lord for His mercy , grace and forgiveness and blood that washes a person clean.
There are many scriptures to back marriage/remarriage /divorce and rules etc.
but I believe that Jesus realizes we are but dust, and does love us
if we do remarry and not cast us away as sinners reprobate.
woofy


Posted by: Shilou62

First of all we would have to come up with a correct definition of adultery. I had this question many times while reading the OT. Even after the law was given men had many wifes. Committing adultery against God is not a sexual act, it is an act of putting anything before God. It is worshipping anything more than we worship God. A husband is to love his wife as the second most important relationship to him, he is supposed to love her as Christ loves the church. When a spouse puts anything before their relationship with God they are committing adultery against God, and when they put anything before their spouse, be it friends, parents, alcohol, drugs or such it is my firm conviction this is adulterous. The feelings on the spouses part are the same, shame, betrayal, loss.

Adultery like all else in the spirit realm is a condition of the heart, if the heart has gone astray no matter what the thing or place or person it went astray with you have adultery. When this happened in the promised land God sent the inhabitants into slavery. They were acting like people from Babylon so to Babylon they would go. They were acting like people from Egypt so off to Egypt. When there is abuse in a situation neither person is walking with God. God has a purpose for each of us, that purpose would be something that shows the glory of God. Nothing about living and remaining in an abusive situation would show the glory of God, especially when children are being harmed. It takes alot more faith in God to leave this type of situation than it does to stay. Also divorce is not neccessarily the answer here, do it like God did, separate yourself from the defiled person and pray for his salvation. Your husband is in a very dark place and is doomed to eternal hell without an intervention of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing any human being can do here except pray, the initial waking up of his spirit may be his family leaving him. I know this can work for you as it has for me. My husband and I had alot of the same problems, minus the sexual abuse. Five years ago we separated for a year and a half, in that time he came to Christ. I went on with my life without filing for divorse and refused to work things out until he knew the Lord. Just recently he fell off the wagon and things started to slide down hill. I separated from him again and prayed in the Spirit for a week along with others for his release from darkness. Well he's back on board and seeking God with diligence. We have both come to discover that the only thing that can hold a marriage together happily is God. I knew from experience that God had to get my husband alone and separate from blaming me for his misery to effectively speak clearly to him. I would suggest leaving with no contact. The first time I left my husband I wanted to explain it all, you know tell him how God could do this or that if he would only listen. Well it was dumb and I probably frustrated the work of the Spirit more than helped. I know now that when Satan has a firm grip on someone they can not hear words of light because they are living literally in a different realm that speaks a different language. First prayers have to be geared towards God sending legions of His heavenly hosts to cut through the darkness, or demons that surround the person, this is in God's will to bring all people to salvation and through prayers we work with God in love on this end. But even before that we ourselves after being separated have to pray diligently for a clean heart free from the bitterness and pain inflicted upon us. Our prayers have to be sent in love, and free of ulterior selfish motives. After I didn't succeed in preaching my husband into the kingdom so we could restore our relationship I started thinking about where he would spend eternity without God and in that thought I found love in my heart for him as a fellow human being. I stopped caring about what I wanted and just started praying for his salvation. I am very well read in the scriptures and it took me a year and a half to figure that out. Well within weeks he came to Christ, and now I know better.

In Yeshua's love
Shilou


Posted by: Lorica Lass

If he harmed the child sexually he committed adultery. If he is into pornography he has committed adultery. I can't imagine someone being very abusive without his also being into pornography as the problem is epidemic - even amongst Ministers who are trying to lead godly lives .

Say this man is the big exception, you can separate from him to prevent him from harming a child or yourself and in the meantime get counseling and maybe go to a "safe place." If you stay and he harms the child - really even if he harms you - in a sense you are coresponsible. It is so easy when under extreme stress to have a hard time making clear decisions, so I am not trying to put you on a guilt trip, just giving you something to reflect on.

Ten to one the man would seek other female companionship if alone. There you go again - adultery. Even very degenerate people can sometimes be saved. But I would personally not count on that, just fast and pray and let the Lord lead. I will pray for you.


Posted by: JeriRose12

You mentioned sexual abuse. But what about physical abuse -- doing harm physically to the children, for instance? A mother can not stay with that man and let her child take that, can she? I can't find a Bible verse saying it's OK to leave, but what would a mother do? It does say if you don't stand up for the defenseless (which would be the child), you will be held accountable.

By the law, if he does harm (or kill) that child, SHE is held accountable, too. By law, she can have her other minor children taken away! Also, by law, WHICH IS UNFAIR, they will not make him leave the home without concrete proof. That forces the child and/or mother to leave. Someone I know was told she could not get a restraining order unless he had a place to go! That is wacky!!! Also, the only restraining order she could get did not even do much -- only said he could get arrested if he did it again! Meanwhile, what's the child to do??? This is making no sense! Why do the laws protect the victumizer not the victum???

Anyway, what principles from the Bible might guide us in the case of physcial abuse to a wife or a child? The Bible says fornication is the only reason a mate can leave, so what does someone do who's life is in danger? I say it's OK to leave, because to stay she might be an acomplice to a crime (as in the wife or child might die).

What happens when the husband or wife is beyond reason and thinks their physical violence is perfectly justifiable? Don't you think leaving might be the best way to bring him/her to their senses? It might be the wake up call they need? These men (or women, in some cases), think "the good Christian wife/husband" will stay, but perhaps to realize the mate draws the line somewhere will make them realize they had better change. After all, why stay there and enable them to go on beating them or harming them and not once making them face himself/herself for who they really are? What good does that do them? They will just continue in this unhealthy behavior, maybe until the mate or child is dead. And how is that helping ANYONE?

The problem is, to quickly get the dangerous mate out of the way, is nearly impossible. The restraining order only says if he deos it again, call the cops (at least locally). The best way seemed to be to quickly file for divorce, so that he had to leave the home. It seemed the only other option, to protect the victum and potential victums was for the mother and children to move or stay away for a while, until something could be done to sever the husband from the home. Hmmm....

Anyway, I can not find an exact scripture, but something tells me God would not want you to hurt one of these little ones by making them live in that situation. He/she who harms one of these little ones should have a millstone hung about their neck, so what about the mother or father not taking the child out of that situation? Is she/he not just as too blame as the one doing the harming? I would think so.

Anyhow, please advice or find me s someting scriptually supported about what to do in cases of physical abuse.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2004


Posted by: cgirl

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeriRose12
You mentioned sexual abuse. But what about physical abuse -- doing harm physically to the children, for instance? A mother can not stay with that man and let her child take that, can she? I can't find a Bible verse saying it's OK to leave, but what would a mother do? It does say if you don't stand up for the defenseless (which would be the child), you will be held accountable.

By the law, if he does harm (or kill) that child, SHE is held accountable, too. By law, she can have her other minor children taken away! Also, by law, WHICH IS UNFAIR, they will not make him leave the home without concrete proof. That forces the child and/or mother to leave. Someone I know was told she could not get a restraining order unless he had a place to go! That is wacky!!! Also, the only restraining order she could get did not even do much -- only said he could get arrested if he did it again! Meanwhile, what's the child to do??? This is making no sense! Why do the laws protect the victumizer not the victum???

Anyway, what principles from the Bible might guide us in the case of physcial abuse to a wife or a child? The Bible says fornication is the only reason a mate can leave, so what does someone do who's life is in danger? I say it's OK to leave, because to stay she might be an acomplice to a crime (as in the wife or child might die).

What happens when the husband or wife is beyond reason and thinks their physical violence is perfectly justifiable? Don't you think leaving might be the best way to bring him/her to their senses? It might be the wake up call they need? These men (or women, in some cases), think "the good Christian wife/husband" will stay, but perhaps to realize the mate draws the line somewhere will make them realize they had better change. After all, why stay there and enable them to go on beating them or harming them and not once making them face himself/herself for who they really are? What good does that do them? They will just continue in this unhealthy behavior, maybe until the mate or child is dead. And how is that helping ANYONE?

The problem is, to quickly get the dangerous mate out of the way, is nearly impossible. The restraining order only says if he deos it again, call the cops (at least locally). The best way seemed to be to quickly file for divorce, so that he had to leave the home. It seemed the only other option, to protect the victum and potential victums was for the mother and children to move or stay away for a while, until something could be done to sever the husband from the home. Hmmm....

Anyway, I can not find an exact scripture, but something tells me God would not want you to hurt one of these little ones by making them live in that situation. He/she who harms one of these little ones should have a millstone hung about their neck, so what about the mother or father not taking the child out of that situation? Is she/he not just as too blame as the one doing the harming? I would think so.

Anyhow, please advice or find me s someting scriptually supported about what to do in cases of physical abuse.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2004


Genesis 31:50 my dear...Blessings to you


Posted by: cgirl

Let it go for 2004...by T. D. Jakes

There are people who can walk away from you. And hear me when I tell
you this! When people can walk away from you: let them walk.

I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you,
loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying
attached to you. I mean hang up the phone.

When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never
tied to anybody that left. The bible said that, they came out from us that
it might be made manifest that they were not for us. For had they been
of us, no doubt they would have continued with us. [1 John 2:19]

People leave you because they are not joined to you. And if they are
not joined to you, you can't make them stay. Let them go. And it doesn't
mean that they are a bad person it just means that their part in the story
is over. And you've got to know when people's part in your story is over
so that you don't keep trying to raise the dead. You've got to know when
it's dead.

You've got to know when it's over. Let me tell you something. I've got
the gift of good-bye. It's the tenth spiritual gift, I believe in good-bye.
It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever
God means for me to have He'll give it to me. And if it takes too much
sweat I don't need it.

Stop begging people to stay. Let them go!!

If you are holding on to something that doesn't belong to you and was
never intended for your life, then you need to ... LET IT GO!!!

If you are holding on to past hurts and pains ... LET IT GO!!!

If someone can't treat you right, love you back, and see your
worth...LET IT GO!!!

If someone has angered you ... LET IT GO!!!

If you are holding on to some thoughts of evil and revenge ... LET IT GO!!!


If you are involved in a wrong relationship or addiction ... LET IT GO!!!

If you are holding on to a job that no longer meets your needs or
talents ... LET IT GO!!!

If you have a bad attitude...LET IT GO!!!

If you keep judging others to make yourself feel better... LET IT GO!!!

If you're stuck in the past and God is trying to take you to a new
level in Him... LET IT GO!!!

If you are struggling with the healing of a broken relationship....
LET IT GO!!!

If you keep trying to help someone who won't even try to help
themselves; LET IT GO!!!

If you're feeling depressed and stressed ... LET IT GO!!!

If there is a particular situation that you are so used to handling
yourself and God is saying "take your hands off of it," then you need
to... LET IT GO!!!

Let the past be the past. Forget the former things. GOD is doing a new
thing for 2004!!! LET IT GO!!!

Get Right or Get Left ... think about it, and then LET IT GO!!!


Posted by: WFC

I found a lot of good input on the replies, but to be honest here, where is the scripture? el_star, where you just looking for general input?


Posted by: keeping on keeping on

I was married to a man for 25 years and was never happy with him. He was a good friend, but I should never have married him in the first place. Is everyone that get married realy joined together by god. We made the choice, we make mistakes. Would we have to spend our hole lives in unhappyness because of this mistake. I was married at age 19. Maby too young, and just got married because I didn't want to pass up a shore thing to wait for a possibility. I wanted to have a man that I was in love with. But I settled for one that was in love with me. My husband did have a problem with his anger. He got mad at the slightest thing and would break things and act like a child having a tantrum. We very seldom had a family supper with my sister or mother without him getting mad and making a mess out of things. He got to the point where he was lieing about things. Like things that happened at work, and dirty magazines that made it into the house. It got to the point where I was down all the time. I consaulted ministers and was told that they didn't think that god would want us to live in an abusive unhappy place. Mental abuse or physical. I was not right with christ when I got married. If Jesus forgives us for mistakes we make, why would a marriage be diffirent. And when he does forgive, it's like it never happened. Wiped clean. If that's so then we should be able to get married again, since god said that it's not good to be alone. Im saying this after the fact. I was divorced and remarried. And I am still shore that I am a christian and on my way to heaven. God is a good god and a very forgiving god. I'm not saying that everyone that isn't happy should get divorced. But I think they would be forgiven if they did.