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Will they be condemned?

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Posted by: footprint9

These are something that have been on my mind for a while now - They’ve come up in a lot of discussions with non-Christian friends so it would be good to get some Christian opinions.

1) What happens to all the people in the world, both today and throughout history, who never had the chance to find out about Jesus? Are they condemned? How can it be fair that they were denied this opportunity to know God?



2)What will happen to all those people who, in their search for something more than this life, turn to other religions? For example - it’s logical to assume that someone brought up in a Muslim community would start their search within Islam. Are they also condemned for exploring these avenues simply because they were brought up in a culture which teaches them that the answer to the ‘big questions’ in life lie in a faith other than Christianity?

I know Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me” [John 14:6]

However, I find it hard to accept that a God of love would condemn people who either had no chance to know Jesus or, through no fault of their own, have had their search for God directed into other areas.

Has anyone read the last book in the CS Lewis ‘Narnia’ series? There he seems to suggest that if someone of another religion is searching for God, and tries to serve their God(s) with all their heart, all their devotion is really directed towards the true God and will be accepted as such.

What are your thoughts on this interpretation? Do they head too far towards the dangers of pluralism?

J


Posted by: Rmartel

Thousands of people: Muslims have seen Jesus over the Northern Sahara, they have even Started a Radio Station on this subject. Have Faith love will find a way. Read also the Book "Dare to talk to the Father" by Bilquis last name not sure of. This is about a Muslim in Pakistan who Jesus gave dreams to and touched her life. It is absolutely an amazing story. What about the former Buddist who was healed by Jesus and now this man has become a Christian Pastor and has the Largest Church in the world in South Korea.
What about Nigeria? Have you not seen the film clip on this board of 1 million
worshipping Jesus? Who did the angel Gabriel and Micheal warreth with in the Book of Daniel (sealed up for the distant future)? Answer the Prince of Persia
Iran Iraq and Syria is what we used to call Persia. this all a moslem area.
Now why do think the Angels of God are warring with them. Salvation of many! You need to read more. God Bless you.
Rmartel


Posted by: footprint9

That’s very encouraging - it’s always great to hear that God can break through to people’s lives in places where we cannot directly go and spread the word.

However, I don’t really feel you answered my question. There are some people in the world who have not heard of Christ and probably never will. As you have pointed out, sometimes God will intervene directly in those situations through dreams/visions etc. but I’m guessing that in the majority of cases this does not happen (you’d have think we’d have heard to the contrary if it did!). Are the people who haven’t heard of Christ and who receive no direct vision etc. from Him going to be condemned because of it?

(I know I sound a bit like a stuck record - I’m really sorry! Like most people here I’m also looking for some answers. Sometimes I find that if I avoid the difficult issues, or accept ‘half-answers’, or am told to accept something blindly, it will play on my mind and drive a wedge between God and myself. Hence, the repetition until I find a resolution on the issue.)

I hope you don't mind!
J


Posted by: MarkSentMe

"I know Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me” [John 14:6]"

That's it in a nutshell.

"However, I find it hard to accept that a God of love would condemn people who either had no chance to know Jesus or, through no fault of their own, have had their search for God directed into other areas."

Believe it. The Bible tells more about hell than it does about heaven. There are warnings to tell us cigarette smoking causes cancer, warnings that the filling in a McDonald's pie is hot, warnings that objects in mirror are closer than they appear. People ignore these warnings all the time- often with tragic results.
When someone tries to minister and witness to unbelievers, what happens sometimes? The unbeliever will go out of their way to point out "facts" as to why the Bible is 'flawed' in their opinion. Or who Jesus is in their mind. Or point out that their half-hearted prayer went unanswered. Or they are doing just fine without God's help. Their success is their own doing and not a blessing.
This is not a no-choice situation. I have a friend who is a non-believer and her husband is agnostic. I pray for them everyday especially since her husband is in the military and in a combat zone. She says that Paul believes in a "Supreme Being". OK. What is that? God? An alien? A microbe? She says it's not God, but a Supreme Being. When I downloaded music from Napster, my 'rank' was Supreme Being! Paul is not in a remote commune somewhere in Antarctica miles from human contact. He has chosen to reject God. He has chosen to deny the commandments. And sadly, God forbid, but if he died tonight, he would be forever separated from God.
She said his job in the Army is not a position for the "weak" (meaning Christians). She said that if he had to second guess himself by having to think about morality and walking right, he could get killed. I pray that someone will minister to him and bring him to the Lord before it's too late.


Posted by: MarkSentMe

1) What happens to all the people in the world, both today and throughout history, who never had the chance to find out about Jesus? Are they condemned? How can it be fair that they were denied this opportunity to know God?

The Bible has been around for a while, more than 1600 years. Even Jesus read Scripture, so ignorance of the Law is no excuse.


Posted by: footprint9

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSentMe
1)
The Bible has been around for a while, more than 1600 years. Even Jesus read Scripture, so ignorance of the Law is no excuse.
Fair enough. Though it breaks my heart, I can accept that for most people today, the warnings and the opportunities are there, and they will be judged accordingly.

But...(I hate to throw this back to you, but I'm sick of not having an adequate reply when a non-Christian asks me!)…

What about those in China before the first missionaries were sent there?

What about the native Americans, before the first Europeans set foot on the continent?

What about those living in parts Africa and other remote places in the world today who ARE as isolated from the Christian message as your hypothetical ‘commune in Antarctica’ scenario?

If we were created with the expressed purpose of knowing and loving God, why were these people born into situations where they would be denied that opportunity?

Furthermore, what will happen to all those who were born before Jesus came to the earth? I realise that the Old Testament Laws were in existence, but they were hardly accessible to everyone on the planet at that point!

(So many questions! Sometimes I wish I could switch off my brain!)

J


Posted by: MarkSentMe

It's hard when you encounter non-believers. My church is offering a class "Sharing Jesus Without Fear" and I am sad that my foster care/adoption classes are on the same night as we will miss this session.
You can put the ball in their court and ask them if they are saved. If they died tonight would they be going to heaven? Why do they think they would? I don't have the answers about the Native Americans, the pre-missionary Buddhists, the remote tribes of Africa, but I have an answer for my non-believer friend. And she doesn't like the answer so she continues to look to other Christians in order to find someone who is luke warm who will bend the Bible for her and soften the truth. The Bible is about absolutes. Non-believers don't like that option. They want to believe they can slip in through the back door on some kind of technicality
Brother Billy said in Sunday school yesterday,"People are worried about witnessing to friends. They are afraid that they are going to offend someone. Well, I got news for you: the Bible is offensive! There is a lot of unpleasant stuff in there!"


Posted by: Christian Commando

Just a quick note to this forum- Remember the example Christ gave of comparing Capernaum to Sodom? How it would be better for Sodom in Hell than Capernaum, Sodom never having heard the Gospel preached, where Capernaum had, but rejected it? Hope this helps. God Bless!


Posted by: Christian Commando

sorry- need to add something- Would God be fair in letting unsaved people into Heaven, even if hadn't heard the Word preached while still alive, knowing thats when the decision must be made? (Thats where many Cults get thier beliefs about being able to accept the Gospel in the "afterlife"). Think about it. God Bless!


Posted by: Christian Commando

Forgive me- one last note- What you brought up is one of the arguments Cults also use to claim a belief in "Purgatory", "becoming god" yourself and more. Ask me about it sometime, I'll explain more. It's really quite interesting, yet misconcieved.


Posted by: footprint9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Just a quick note to this forum- Remember the example Christ gave of comparing Capernaum to Sodom? How it would be better for Sodom in Hell than Capernaum, Sodom never having heard the Gospel preached, where Capernaum had, but rejected it? Hope this helps. God Bless!
Hmm... yes this one always worries me a bit - are you ever afraid that by telling people about Christ, the result might be that we ensure a worse fate for them should they reject the message?

I’m not the most eloquent person when it comes to sharing my faith, and I’d hate to think that someone who is put off Christianity due to my inadequate explanation of it, might suffer more as a result.

I’m also quite interested in the other points you made. I have a fair understanding of purgatory, but the whole ’becoming more God-like’, and cults which allow you to choose in the afterlife - what’s all that about?

J


Posted by: footprint9

I also just wanted to thank MarkSentMe for their replies. You are completely right of course - the Bible shouldn't be 'bent'. I confess I am sometimes afraid to do the 'controversial' thing and defend the Bible as it stands, but I guess it is better for people to be offended and know the truth, than to go through this life being told that what they are doing is fine and then suffer the consequences come judgement day.
Thank you
J