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Are the gospels copied from Q?

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Posted by: Frederik

Have you ever heard something about this Q thing?
They claim that there is a source Q which was used by the writers of the gospel cause there are sentences in the gospels which are the same in a few gospels and because of this they think that the writers copied their stuff from a source which they say is Q.


What is the gospel of Q and does it prove the Gospels are false?


Q comes from the German "quelle" meaning "source." Some biblical scholars have proposed that there was a document prior to the writing of the gospels which was used by the writers of Matthew and Luke as a source of information.1 They have called this hypothetical document "Q." It is hypothetical because there is no proof that the document existed. Nevertheless, this proposal has gained some acceptance in scholarly circles due to the very close similarities and identical written accounts found in both Matthew and Luke. It is reasoned that the very similar accounts must be taken from a common source.
Since Matthew was probably originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic according to the historian Papias, and all we have is the Greek texts, some conclude that a translation of the Hebrew gospel of Matthew into Greek would have resulted in translations slightly different from the Luke accounts. But since some of the accounts are identical, it is proposed that Matthew and Luke shared a common reference source. This is perfectly reasonable and we do see differences in translations as well as identical wording. Is this the result of an unknown document known as Q? Perhaps, but there is no way to be sure since it is possible that one copied from another or copied from Mark.
Following is a small sample chart of some of the sayings in Matthew and Luke that are identical as is demonstrated by being underlined. The text is taken from the NASB.

Matt. 3:7-10, But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8"Therefore bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance; 9and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you, that God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. 10"And the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Luke 3:7-9, "He therefore began saying to the multitudes who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8"Therefore bring forth fruits in keeping with repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father,’ for I say to you that God is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham. 9"And also the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Matt. 23:37, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Luke 13:34, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!


Matt. 11:2-6 Luke 7:18-23
Matt. 8:18-22 Luke 9:57-62
Matt. 17:19-20 Luke 17:5-6
Matt. 25:14-30 Luke 19:11-27
...etc.

As I said above, another theory is that Matthew and Luke copied from Mark. Please consider the following quote which deals with both the Q theory and the Markan Source theory.

"It is plain as a pikestaff that both our Matthew and Luke used practically all of Mark and followed his general order of events. For this reason Mark has been placed first on the pages where this Gospel appears at all. But another thing is equally clear and that is that both Matthew and Luke had another source in common because they each give practically identical matter for much that is not in Mark at all. This second common source for Matthew and Luke has been called Logia because it is chiefly discourses. It is sometimes referred to as "Q."2

The above quote from A.T. Robertson, one of the foremost Greek scholars of the 20th century, is a good reflection of the position of many scholars. It may be that there was a common source for Matthew and Luke, either Q or Mark, or a combination of both.

If Q is true, are the gospels inspired?

Some people say that the Q theory invalidates the inspiration of the gospels since it would mean that the writers copied their material from one another and were then not inspired of God. But this does not invalidate inspiration at all. If Q is an actual source it does not invalidate the validity of the gospels. Why would copying from an earlier source invalidate the Gospels or say they were not inspired? Can God not inspire a writer as he copies from another document? Of course.
If anything, the existence of Q would mean that the time between the actual events and their written record is lessened. In other words, Q would have to precede Matthew and Luke. This would mean that there is a source even earlier than the those gospels which only adds to the validity of the accuracy of the gospels since it shortens the time between the event and the record.

If Mark was a source of Matthew and Luke, then...

Furthermore, if Mark was used as a source for Matthew and Luke, how would he have known what to write about if he wasn't an eyewitness? This isn't a problem because Mark was a disciple of Peter and Peter was in the inner circle with Jesus. Therefore, Mark received his information from Peter who was an eyewitness. Also, Matthew, who was a disciple, agrees with the account of Mark's gospel concerning Jesus and the events surrounding Him as is evidenced in his account. There is no disagreement between them, only confirmation and verification. So, we have confirmation of Mark's accuracy


Posted by: MamaCat

My dear Fredrick: If you'd spend more time reading the Word and fellowshipping with Jesus than you do running to and fro with every wind of dctrine and the opinions of men, you'd be a mature Christian by now!!!

Think about that!!


Posted by: christythompson

I agree Frederik
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaCat
[size=3]My dear Fredrick: If you'd spend more time reading the Word and fellowshipping with Jesus than you do running to and fro with every wind of dctrine and the opinions of men, you'd be a mature Christian by now!!!

Think about that!!



Posted by: Christian Commando

Dear friend Frederik- Both MamaCat and Christy are right. one of the major reasons you have problems understanding God's Word for what It says is, you question every other belief "coming down the pipe", rather than reading It yourself, seeking God's enlightenment of the Truth of It by His Holy Spirit and in prayer.

Secondly- There were Scribes who actually wrote what God's Leaders were told or shown to write. Outside of and mybe including the longer letters, the Apostles wrote God's Word themselves.

Example- A Scribe City had been found not many years ago and slowly unearthed. In it was found, many a documentation that showed direct writings about many an Old Test. Charactor, as well as alot of references to thier writings and teachings.

There are alot of people out there, influenced by satan or demons, throwing in all this bologne to try and get the facts of God's Word historical proof mixed up. I've read alot of it and spoken on this.

they have no real basis, unless grounded from God's Literal Word taken in context. So, I refuse to read most of it now.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Okay.


Posted by: Christian Commando

I know you have questions my friend, but you know, the gals are right, you have God's Word to go with for understanding many things. Instead, you hear all this stuff that you ask us about, even tho you question it's validity because it does not coincide with God's Literal Word. Thus, you have the answer and appear to understand it, yet, you do not accept it. That, I do not understand.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

I don't know, I simply become confused easily.


Posted by: bill & alexis

Frederik, YOU DO KNOW!!!


Posted by: Frederik

I don't know doesn't mean that I don't know.
I don't know can also be used as a saying, you know?
Something like "I don't know but...."
Anyway, I become confused easily.This sucks.


Posted by: bill & alexis

Frederik, quit making excuses, YOU DO KNOW!!!


Posted by: Frederik

what do you mean?


Posted by: Christian Commando

What Bill is saying is, from our examples, you've already proven "you do know" the Truth from the responces you gave. You've read Scriptures and question other's teachings and that shows- "you do know".

My young friend, you just have to learn to trust God and His Word for what it says.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

I know.I wish I did not become confused so easily.


Posted by: Christian Commando

You are only confused, because you've let satan or his demons convince you to question God's Word from all the things others say that don't teach what Scripture literally says.

God taught me this- if someone says something about a Scripture that does not relate a clear explaination of the Truth It speaks, it is not of God. Not to mention, I've noticed you know alot of other Scriptures that are what God showed me over the years are- "support Scriptures".

Many times you've shared extra Scripture that support the main Concept of the one you were questioning. Yet you ask- how can this belief another says be true? Well, you just answered yourself right there. It can't.

God Bless!!


Posted by: MamaCat

You must be convinced of who you are in Christ!

For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: - Proverbs 23:7

Stop continually saying you are easily confused. [While that may be true in the natural at this point in time, it is not what God says you are. And most of your confusion is just lack of knowing the Word and being firm in it's truth].

Start saying what God says you are:

 Proverbs 16:3 As I commit my works to the LORD, my thoughts are established.

Matthew 23:37 I shall love the Lord my God with all my heart, and with all my soul, and with all my mind.

Romans 12:2 I am not conformed to the pattern of this world: but I am transformed by the renewing of my mind, so I may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Luke 24:45 Jesus opens my mind so I can understand the Scriptures.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given me the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.










Posted by: Frederik

Maybe I want to hear it from somebody else,too.


Posted by: MamaCat

You have heard it from someone else....from the One who created you!!!

It don't get any better than that!!


Posted by: Frederik

I mean I want a confirmation that my opinion is right.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Thats fine frederik to a point. but, if take the Scriptures yourself, for what they literally say to mean, you are doing as God commands of us. Thus, your opinion, if taking the literal meaning of what a Scripture says, you are believing what God is actually saying. You are then right. You then, do not need other's opinions of Scripture.

What I've witnessed alot tho, is you knowing much of Scripture and what it means, but coming here and asking us, since you question what others say that go against what you believe Scripture says.

Why? It was pretty clear in many cases you already had the answer when you posted.

You know, I appreciate sincere interest in young people to learn God's Word and what It says or means when they come to others like us for advice, but there is a limit to that, when realizing that person already knows the answers in so many cases.

I suggest my wonderful young friend, the only real problem you have is insecurity in that respect. I don't know what has made you so afraid of believing and truely holding unto for faith in what you've read of god's word to be fully true, but something makes you insecure with that.

Think and pray to God about this. Both MamaCat and bill were right several times in the comments made how you shouldn't be asking things that you'd already answered yourself thru Scriptures you... quoted yourself.

Again- think and pray to God about this dear Brother. You are farther along than you may want to believe. most of us who's posted on your questions have refered to that point at one time or another. God Bless!!


Posted by: bill & alexis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik
I know.I wish I did not become confused so easily.
Frederik,
Wow! That's a huge step - confessing the truth! Good Job!

Now start confessing the verses mamacat (Marci) has placed in her post for you. Read these and meditate on them for three months - then give us your testimony.

Keep seeking, your going the right direction.

Be in peace, and have a very blessed day in the LORD!
Semper Fi!
-Bill


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
I suggest my wonderful young friend, the only real problem you have is insecurity in that respect. I don't know what has made you so afraid of believing and truely holding unto for faith in what you've read of god's word to be fully true, but something makes you insecure with that.


That's right.
I also don't know why but somehow I never had a huge opinion of my own ideas.I also cannot come up with answers as good as other people. There are some people which are totally souvereign and always have an answer to everything and if they don't have an answer then they come up with an answer, but I cannot do this.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Dear boy- When a True Christian appears to always have an answer and they speak it from God's Word as literally written, it's true. But it's not them who has the answers, but God. And He gave us all we need in His Word for this.

They are simply sharing what God has shown them to be true.

God Bless!!


Posted by: humblegirl

Frederik,

You are a true seeker of the Word. God gives us the eyes to see and the ears to hear. He will open His Word, like that emerging rose, the more you knock. Don't let the critical nature of some of our dear brothers or sisters discourage you. God is your teacher. Pray for them who persecute you

God Bless You
humblegirl