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Is the soul bad?

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Posted by: Frederik

I listened to a teaching about the soul and the spirit and the speaker said that God actually created man only with a body and a spirit and after the fall man could not longer live from his spirit and then the soul developed.
He said that the soul (psyche) opposes the spirit and that it's carnal. He read from a bout about the characteristics of christians which are lead by the soul and not the spirit and this totally fit to me!
Christians which are led by the soul are easily discouraged when something doesn't work and they're looking for emotions and have no vision and all that.


Posted by: footprint9

Hey Frederik,

Sounds like one crazy teaching to me, who on earth was telling you that?

How did he draw a distinction between the soul and spirit? Is there a difference? Anyone know what the Bible says on this one?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you're capable of loving God with heart, mind, soul and body, I would argue that none of these parts of us can be inherently bad, though all can obviously be abused and misused.

With love

J


Posted by: Christian Commando

That is correct footprint9, that is crazy. As God has shown me over the years, God created man in His Image- God the Father- man's soul- spirit intellect.- God the Son- Man's physical body.- and God the Holy Spirit- Spirit body of man.

All 3 have been around the whole time. God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

He read from a book from Watchman Nee and he also said that being led by the soul is not good.


Posted by: Christian Commando

I may or may not have heard of Watchman nee, I can't remember anymore, I've read so many different people's literature.

I will say this tho, 1- God gave us a soul- spirit intellect, in order to be able to have dominion over the earth- make choices. 2- We have both a good and bad influence that feeds us choices to follow. Thus, we must use our "soul" to make the choice of which to follow. 3- He is correct to a point, if figuring not to lean upon our own knowledge but seek god's to follow.

You claimed in your first post he said after the fall, man could no longer live (seperate)? from his spirit?

Notice in Genesis A- God created the spirit-soul seperate to begin with, as was both male and female simultaneously. Yet later- made, the physical bodies of them seperately. B- God did not bond Adam's spirit to his body until He "Breathed the Breath of Life" into his nostrils- (Breathed- translated means spoke).

Brother- Right from the very beginning with Adam and Eve, man's physical body was made last for the fact the spirit is an eternal existing part of man, but not the body. It took the food of the "Tree of Life" to keep the physical body spiritually enhanced to live forever without aging.

this is why, after man's fall, God declared He could not allow man to eat of the "Tree of Life" again, and live forever-(physically), in that fallen state.

The point? God created man in such a way, the physical body could never be "alive", have life, without a spirit soul bonded to it. (Refer back to God bringing life to Adam and at what point).

The soul- spirit's intellect has always been around since God created the first spirits of man- (Refer back to God's first act of "creation" of man and how He spoke to both male and female spirits right after that).

Even after becoming saved and reborn, we still battle with the fleshly attractions of the world. It is not the soul- intellect alone, but our heart that is also. (In other words- our old sinful nature).

God declares in his word about not being led by either one- our emotions or our own knowledge. so I do go along with the fact we are not to be led by them.

but, it is clearly not the "soul"- intellect of man which is carnal but the inheritance of the "knowledge of good and evil"- sinful nature, that is the "natural man" part of our nature that "causes" us to be carnal when saved and reborn.

As the Apostle Paul declared of this struggle between the fleshly lusts and the Spirit of God- I do things I know I shouldn't, yet don't do things I know I should. Yet he states that he worked to keep his mind and body under subjection to avoid doing wrong.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

But Paul said this before he goes on to speak about living in the spirit, this means that you do not have these problems anymore when you live in the spirit,right?


Posted by: Christian Commando

You are right frederik. But, how many people do you know, allow the Holy Spirit to totally guide them in all things to be totally seperate from worldly living, thinking and operating?

I don't know of any who've reached that point as yet, even thru out recorded history.It's a daily struggle every believer faces. What God wants to see, is our willingness to keep trying to grow in Him- God, thru Jesus Christ and by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Yes, that's right.


Posted by: bill & alexis

Frederik,

Even our soul can be sanctified by the Blood of the Lamb! How can we be walking in the Spirit, if we do not surrendur our soul/mind to God?

The Spirit can influence a sanctified soul, but the flesh can influence the unsanctified soul!

Before you ask a million questions about this, once we accept Jesus - and become saved - the LORD starts on the inside and works towards the outside sanctifying us from Spirit, to soul, to flesh. This is why it's important to build a relationship with the LORD, and yeild everything to HIM, and trust HIM to make us more like HIM!

If you can do this, soon even your thoughts can be inspired by the Holy Spirit! You could even prophesy!


I am stepping out in faith hoping you will receive what I am trying to say...

Semper Fi!
-Bill


Posted by: Frederik

I already ask the Holy Spirit to change me but somehow I see no changes?
At least not about the things which bother me.


Posted by: bill & alexis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik
I already ask the Holy Spirit to change me but somehow I see no changes?
At least not about the things which bother me.

Frederik, you won't until one day you will look back, and say "Wow, God did change that in me!" We never seem to notice what God is doing, until after HE does it!

As for the other, don't let anything bother you! It's that simple - you choose not be be bugged by it! It's like the old saying of: "If I don't mind - it dosen't matter!"

Have a blessed day!
Semper Fi!
-Bill


Posted by: Frederik

But God minds. There are things which I know are not okay and even though I pray they are still there.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Thank you Bill, I appreciate the help in your responce. That should help clarify some things spoken here. Hopefully. God Bless!!


Posted by: Christian Commando

Frederik, as Bill said, you have to do your part in thinking and speaking positive things and the negatives will change. Like he said tho too, it takes time and practice to bring yourself to this automatic "mind set" for way of thinking and speaking.

Just be patient and start doing it. It will happen, just don't rush things.

God Bless!!


Posted by: MamaCat

It was about four YEARS after I got saved that I finally got set free of alcohol. Those four years, I would beg and pray for God to 'take it from me.' I would drink, then cry for God to 'do something'.

I finally realized that God would not grab it from me, but once I was willing to let it GO, then and only then, did He take it from me! Then and only then, did God not only remove it from me, but He gave me the strength to live without it.

God will not pry things out of our hands. You have to desire to let them go. Open your hands, release that deathgrip and let it go and give it to God. Be patient with yourself. God is! When a toddler tries to walk for the first time and keeps falling, his parents don't get mad that he fell, they're just thrilled he's trying to walk! How much more is God, our Father, thrilled with us as we grow in him???

One step at a time, one day at a time......we are 'morphing' into what God created us to be, just like a caterpillar into a butterfly! Even the caterpillar has to be patient in his cocoon. Even a caterpillar has to STRUGGLE to be free of his 'old self'.

But once he is out, he is beautiful and he spreads his wings and flies!

Wow, I think I'll do the Holy Ghost shuffle around the room cause I got a preach coming on!!!!!


Posted by: Frederik

How do you know wether you really want to let something go?


Posted by: Christian Commando

God declares we use our minds- logical thinking, not emotions to make the decisions. You just make the decision at some point this is the way it's going to be. God declares, "faith without works is dead". In other words, you have to want to do it, then decide to do it.

If you fail a few times, so what? Just get up, dust yourself off and try again. We all go thru that. Satan will do all he can to keep us from acomplishing God's Promises to us. Thats why- 1- you must have faith- belief it can be done. 2- Keep trying- patience to know it will come eventually. 3- Keep positive- Because God Promised it.
4- stay focused- seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all these things shall given unto you.

It takes time and work to accomplish these things. It's an on going thing for sure. I've not met, known or heard of anyone who has reached a point with God, they could just sit back and fully enjoy life with no strife or other trials to deal with.

But, you have to want to accomplish something in your heart and mind. If don't, you'll always be bouncing around an endless circle where you never recieve the Promises of God. If a person really wants to achieve a goal, and puts forth the effort to, they will eventually recieve them.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando

But, you have to want to accomplish something in your heart and mind. If don't, you'll always be bouncing around an endless circle where you never recieve the Promises of God. If a person really wants to achieve a goal, and puts forth the effort to, they will eventually recieve them.

God Bless!!



The problem is the question what does God expect from us.
If we're like "I'll fit the sin and resist it" then aren't we trying to fight it in our own strength which will sooner or later causes us to fall again?
So what attitude does God want? If we're like "I won't try to resist cause I cannot win this battle in my own strength anyway, I wait for God to free me from my sin" then it's also not right. So what does God want?
Does he want us to show that we're serious about it first and after seeing that we want to resist he'll do his part?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Oh dear boy, sometimes you are a real wonder.

Seems to me we discussed this before as well. To re-iterate- God gives us Promises in His word. how do you know what they are until you read what they are?

2- God declares there are certain guidelines for recieving them- as in not asking amiss, wrongly, but inline with God.

3- Where do you get this- "I'll fit the sin to resist it" thing? That is off the wall thinking.

4- You must have the faith to believe God will give that which He promises, along with doing your part in prayer and doing things as your part, to bring it about.

NOTE- your seeking a job. God gives you a sign He will provide you with one. Do you sit on your duff waiting for it? No... your part for God to Bless you is... go out searching for that job.

Understand Brother? God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

But this means that we have to try to resist. But sooner or later you fall anyway, this is the problem of habitual sin. It doesn't matter wether you fall every 7 days or every month, it's still not what I call freedom.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Think about this Frederik- It's been claimed it takes less facial muscles to smile. Yet, because of gravity, it's easier to frown. Now, which kind of presentation to another person makes for the most positive responce- a smile or a frown?

God didn't create us to sit and wait for Him to do everything for us. If you read His Word carefully, you'll find every senario where God dealt with someone, it took them to do thier part, as well as God doing His.

Freedom from bondage with God's Blessing you of it, also takes your part in it. Do you really think if an alocoholic doesn't make the effort to stop, God will automatically just remove all withdrawal and attractions of it from them?

Granted, miracles in a few cases have happened that way. Why? So severe an addiction. But, generally, most of us have to do our part to make the choice to avoid it and seek help from God for extra strength for the will to stay away.

Unless you want to die prematurely for just allowing yourself to intentionally sin over and over rather than trying to avoid it. If continue to read God's Word, be in prayer and seek to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you more each day, and do your part to try and avoid old sins, a person falls back to it less and less over time.

It can happen as such thru short term times, to longer ones. It depends upon the person, how God knows it'll be best for them and thier growth in God. The more you lean upon God for things, the quicker and more often you can be delivered form diverse repetitious sins.

Otherwise, wheres the freedom, if expect God to do all things for us, or the learning of anything from the experience? Remember the Scripture I quoted of the ..."Trying of your faith worketh patience". And thats just one Scripture god gives of how we are to do things.

Think about this as well- Why would you not want to try to improve for God from sinning, when God allowed a part of himself to be sacrificed for your sins? Along with this precious Gift of Grace- Mercy, God has for us, He also garauntees other Promises we can have, if believe and work for God.

God declares, because of what He has done for us, we should do for others. God declare we are to die to the flesh and be renewed in the Spirit. Because we have freedom of choice, that is up to us to make the choice.

God gives his True children the holy Spirit to guide them, but it must be thier choice to let Him lead them. Otherwise, we can quench or grieve the Holy spirit by preventing Him from it.

I'd rather have freedom in God and work to show my love and compassion to God for what He's done for me, than just sit around waiting for God to let me go to satan, for not wanting to do anything except continue my old lifestyle of sin.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

But an alcohol addict also cannot fight his addiction in his own strength for a long time. Either God frees him or he'll do it again. I cannot imagine that God wants him to struggle against it every single day and to feel miserable because of it. Where is the sense of this? I thought that God steps in and then he frees the person in a supernatural way. But what you say sounds like God only gives the person some extra strength to battle temptation every day.But this isn't freedom when you battle it every day, cause you're still focused on it. How are you supposed to become free when you have to fight it every day?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Frederik- Only God knows if best to supernaturally deliver someone thru that kind of miracle, or have them work at it with God's added strength and will for them to achieve it.

We've talked of this before too. God will allow us to go thru trials in order to grow closer to Him and lean more on His help and guidance.

God bless!