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The Elect Deceived?

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Posted by: MamaCat

I heard Jerry last night in the Aberdeen meeting say that the Bible says even the elect will be decieved. I don't believe that's what it says, although I've heard that preached a lot.

I believe it references Matthew 24:24. Here is that verse in several versions:
 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. NIV


For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. KJV


For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God's chosen ones). AMP

They all say IF POSSIBLE which implies that it is NOT possible, doesn't it? I believe the Elect are Christians.

I would like to hear from others on their views of this statement and verses. I am sure Jerry has a study or something on it, am I right? If I am wrong about this view, I would like to know why, although I don't believe I am.


Posted by: The Anointed One

Hi MamaCat:

In the Ryrie Study Bible, New American Standard Version, Matthew 24:24 reads like this, "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect," and Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines the word ELECT as outlined in Matthew 24:24 as, "Believers, Jews or Gentiles", So, One could read Matthew 24:24 like this:

"For false Christs and False prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the BELIEVERS."

And I am fully persuaded that believers CAN be misled, even today. I run into people often that are saved, which means they are BELIEVERS, or better yet, THE ELECT, but they still believe that GOD PUTS THINGS ON US TO GET OUR ATTENTION, which is UNSCRIPTURAL, and many also believe that, WE ARE MADE RIGHT THROUGH OUR SUFFERING, also UNSCRIPTURAL, So all you need is one charismatic leader, with a STUCK ON STUPID GOSPEL, and yes, even the elect will be led astray.

Anyway, Strength to You in Jesus' Name,

The Anointed One


Posted by: MamaCat

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Anointed One
Hi MamaCat: In the Ryrie Study Bible, New American Standard Version, Matthew 24:24 reads like this, "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect," and Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines the word ELECT as outlined in Matthew 24:24 as, "Believers, Jews or Gentiles", So, One could read Matthew 24:24 like this:

"For false Christs and False prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the BELIEVERS."

And I am fully persuaded that believers CAN be misled, even today. I run into people often that are saved, which means they are BELIEVERS, or better yet, THE ELECT, but they still believe that GOD PUTS THINGS ON US TO GET OUR ATTENTION, which is UNSCRIPTURAL, and many also believe that, WE ARE MADE RIGHT THROUGH OUR SUFFERING, also UNSCRIPTURAL, So all you need is one charismatic leader, with a STUCK ON STUPID GOSPEL, and yes, even the elect will be led astray.

Thanks for your input. I do have some other insights that might be considered here. I do agree that many Christians, real Christians are deceived in one area or another, but I think this verse refers specifically to those who are decieved right out of their salvations into hell.

I don't believe true Christians can be decieved to that point because true Christians walk with Jesus daily, they read their Bibles and hunger for the Word and for His presence daily, they crucify the flesh daily, they obey the Word, they talk to the LORD all the time, in other words, they're tight with the LORD, so close, it would be impossible to be decieved out of their salvation. As Pastor Jerry often says, they are GOOD SAVED. You know, on fire for Jesus.

Of course there are many who are considered believers who aren't like that, who sit in pews till they turn to stone, who reject the Holy Spirit, who reject the gifts, who never rarely read the Bible, rarely pray, whose idea of worship is singing a hymn or two, who, if they were put on trial for being a Christian, would have NO EVIDENCE AT ALL to be convicted. [Yeah, had to rant a bit on that!] Also consider the baby Christian who hasn't been 'cleaned up' yet and looks and acts like the unbeleiver he or she was 10 minutes ago. Yet they are still believers according to the Bible. And they could be EASILY deceived at this point in time.

But all the verses clearly it is NOT POSSIBLE for the elect to be decieved, but that the false christs and false prophets would be so persuasive that they would be able to fool real Christians IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE...which, according to that verse, regardless of which version you use, it isn't possible. Interesting.

So either the verses don't mean what I think they mean OR it does mean what I think it means and I am wrong about reality! ACK, now there's a thought!!


Posted by: The Anointed One

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaCat

Thanks for your input. I do have some other insights that might be considered here. I do agree that many Christians, real Christians are deceived in one area or another, but I think this verse refers specifically to those who are decieved right out of their salvations into hell.

I don't believe true Christians can be decieved to that point because true Christians walk with Jesus daily, they read their Bibles and hunger for the Word and for His presence daily, they crucify the flesh daily, they obey the Word, they talk to the LORD all the time, in other words, they're tight with the LORD, so close, it would be impossible to be decieved out of their salvation. As Pastor Jerry often says, they are GOOD SAVED. You know, on fire for Jesus.

Of course there are many who are considered believers who aren't like that, who sit in pews till they turn to stone, who reject the Holy Spirit, who reject the gifts, who never rarely read the Bible, rarely pray, whose idea of worship is singing a hymn or two, who, if they were put on trial for being a Christian, would have NO EVIDENCE AT ALL to be convicted. [Yeah, had to rant a bit on that!] Also consider the baby Christian who hasn't been 'cleaned up' yet and looks and acts like the unbeleiver he or she was 10 minutes ago. Yet they are still believers according to the Bible. And they could be EASILY deceived at this point in time.

But all the verses clearly it is NOT POSSIBLE for the elect to be decieved, but that the false christs and false prophets would be so persuasive that they would be able to fool real Christians IF THAT WERE POSSIBLE...which, according to that verse, regardless of which version you use, it isn't possible. Interesting.

So either the verses don't mean what I think they mean OR it does mean what I think it means and I am wrong about reality! ACK, now there's a thought!!

I guess I misunderstood your question.......

I have not seen everything, but I've seen a few things. I've seen Jim Jones, I've seen David Koresh, and as a Pastor, I've seen people get saved, who had itching ears, and whoever was propagating a gospel that they wanted to hear, Reverend Pharaoh or whoever, they would flock to that gospel of convenience, because it didn't require change. I 've always believed that the idea scenario was for people to get saved, and then, go on to become acquainted with the Father, through the ministry of the Word, but it doesn't always happen that way because people get misled through associations and teachings. I've met 50 year old people who were still blessing the food on the table by saying "Jesus Wept", and they continued in this behavior because great Aunt Sadie used to give thanks for food that way.

Anyway,

May God's Richest and Best Be Yours,


The Anointed One


Posted by: MamaCat

Yeah, I hear you, but then I have to ask myself, do we base our beliefs on the Word of God or on what we see, hear, feel, etc.? Most people are inclined to believe what is in their reality as opposed to God's Word.

For example, saying things like "I know the Word says I AM healed, but I am sick, therefore the Bible can't mean that or it means something else."

Their belief is based on their reality, not on God's Word. It's even based on their understanding of God's Word.

I know for a fact that many MANY Christians are deceived in many areas, some temporarily, until they get the truth and turn from the error, some permanent, changing their path from heaven to hell.

So going back to my original thoughts, either what I see in reality isn't the truth [of course, the facts are out there for sure], or the Bible as I understand that verse, means something else than I believe it means. How can the Bible means what I believe it means, when the reality proves otherwise, right? Yet by that reasoning, I cannot say I AM HEALED if I know it's a fact that I am sick.

Perhaps I am overanalyzing this? Heh. It's never a waste of time to discuss the Word.


Posted by: The Anointed One

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaCat
Yeah, I hear you, but then I have to ask myself, do we base our beliefs on the Word of God or on what we see, hear, feel, etc.? Most people are inclined to believe what is in their reality as opposed to God's Word.

For example, saying things like "I know the Word says I AM healed, but I am sick, therefore the Bible can't mean that or it means something else."

Their belief is based on their reality, not on God's Word. It's even based on their understanding of God's Word.

I know for a fact that many MANY Christians are deceived in many areas, some temporarily, until they get the truth and turn from the error, some permanent, changing their path from heaven to hell.

So going back to my original thoughts, either what I see in reality isn't the truth [of course, the facts are out there for sure], or the Bible as I understand that verse, means something else than I believe it means. How can the Bible means what I believe it means, when the reality proves otherwise, right? Yet by that reasoning, I cannot say I AM HEALED if I know it's a fact that I am sick.

Perhaps I am overanalyzing this? Heh. It's never a waste of time to discuss the Word.

That's why the ministry gifts were placed in the church by Jesus as outlined in Ephesians Chapter 4 and verses 11 through 15, for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, and for the edifying of the body of Christ. If a saint were to ask me that question, "How can I say I am Healed If I know it's a fact that I sick? I would say, that, In every situation or challenge you are faced with in life there are always two truths. There is PHYSICAL TRUTH, and physical truth is what you can see or sense with your five physical senses, and then there is REVELATION TRUTH, and revelation truth is what the Word of God says about a particular situation, SO when physical truth contradicts revelation truth, you go with the revelation truth for it will never let you down. I submit to you MARY, the mother of Jesus. Mary was faced with TWO TRUTHS (Luke Chapter 1:26-38). It was TRUE, that she was a virgin, and had not known a man, and it was also true that she was HIGHLY FAVORED OF GOD, AND THAT, THE HOLY GHOST WAS GONNA COME UPON HER, SHE WOULD BRING FORTH A CHILD, AND CALL HIS NAME JESUS. So Mary had a decision to make, because God WILL NOT OVERRIDE OUR WILLS, and our will is our DECISION MAKING PROCESS. We're either gonna WILL TO do something, or WILL NOT TO do something. And in the 38th verse of Luke chapter 1, Mary said, (Paraphrased) Look, I don't understand all this, nevertheless, as thou sayest, be it done unto me. And if Mary had not SET HER WILL IN AGREEMENT with what was said, God would have had to find another instrument to bring Jesus through for he will not override your will.

And I said all of that to say this, A Pastor/Teacher would take the time to teach and train the people of God properly, but since he has no contract on people, they have to submit to his authority, on purpose and of a free will. And since growth requires change, some people would rather go down the street to Reverend Pharoah's church because he allows them to continue sucking on cigarettes, dancing in Canaanite cult temples of fertility, shacking up, and whatever else their flesh desires. So Believers, could be misled by a compromised gospel.

That's all I'm saying........


Strength to You in Jesus' name,

The Anointed One


Posted by: MamaCat

And I agree with all you've said! Your posts are always full of revelation, wisdom and truth! I love chatting with people who know their stuff! Or should I say, know God's Word!!

Of course, I am still not convinced that the elect will be deceived.

Otherwise, God would have left out "if that were possible" because if they could be deceived, it WOULD BE possible.

Oy vay! This one will take some CHEWING!