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The Holy Rosary

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Posted by: angelofthelord

Many people pray the Holy Rosary daily. Many people do not. And this morning I started to wonder why not?

The Holy Rosary (that the Catholics pray daily) is based on the life of Jesus and His ministry. Every decade of it comes from Holy Scripture. Every prayer comes from Holy Scripture.

The prayers:

The apostles creed....
The Our Father....... Luke chapter 11: 2-4
The Hail Mary.......... Luke chapter 1: 28-31 & 41-45
the Glory Be

The decades:

The Joyful Mysteries:

1. The Announciation Luke Chapter 1
2. The Visitation Luke Chapter 1
3. The Birth of Jesus Luke Chapter 2
4. The Presentation at the Temple Luke Chapter 2
5. The finding at the Temple Luke Chapter 2

The Sorrowful Mysteries:

1. The Agony in the Garden Luke Chapter 22
2. The Scourging at the Pillar John Chapter 19
3. The Crowning of Thorns... John Chapter 19
4. The Carrying of the Cross Luke Chapter 23
5. The Crucifixation John Chapter 19

The Glorious Mysteries:

1. The Resurrection John Chapter 20
2. The Ascension Luke Chapter 24
3. The Descent of the Holy Spirit Acts Chapter 2
4. The Assumption Book of Revelation
5. The Crowning of the Blessed Virgin Book of Revelation

Many people read the gospels, but Catholics enjoy praying the gospels daily.

So why don't other christian groups pray the rosary?

Chris
angelofthelord


Posted by: Ready4Rapture

I would think that most Christians focus on faith and salvation and less on procedures and traditions. I, myself, pray the prayer that comes from my heart at that given moment, not a pre-arranged set prayer.

That's my two cents, but I'm not knocking your suggestion.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Ready4Rapture and angelofthelord-

Both are biblically correct if the mind and heart of a person is inline with how God declares we are to believe.

The biggest problem here is, Jesus Christ gave us a spoken prayer- "Lord's Prayer", we are to pray, where remember, the "Rosary" is a manmade tradition to follow in using Scripture in a ritualistic way.

This is seen in all basic foundational religions- the starters of all religions, where the authors of them, chose thier own personal beliefs of how to do a ritualistic repetition of a set of Scripture readings and prayers. As such, it comes down to personal beliefs how to praise and worship God from thier view of God's Word.

this would be alright, if didn't go against God becoming a repeated ritual that eventually loses much of it's importance from becoming so repeated. God declares He is against vain repetitious prayers, etc, as He won't hear them.

Why? It's more for show than true praise or worship of God in the end. You can see this in people's reactions arguing how devoute they are going thru such motions, when because of that very reason, it becomes meaningless.

People who knew God's Word memorized better than I, argued they were better Christians than most. Yet, when asked how they'd answer when died and came before God why they should enter Heaven, they spoke of all thier works, not Salvation at all.

I was born and raised my youngest years a Lutheran. I left the religion after going thru Catecism and seeing the remarks Brother Luther made about other religions and thier followers. this drove him, as well as other religion authers, if read thier personal beliefs, to come up with personal religious beliefs and rituals of thier own, which became known as religions later on, after enough people started follwing them.

It is astounding to see reactions of people from diverse religions, hearing me quote such hainous remarks made by thier religion's author's, when they never knew about them. And these are Christian leaders mind you.

I don't need to, nor do condemn them for this. Why? No need. They will have to face God at the major judgement one day for that, just as we all will for past forgotten or unforgiven sins. Trust me, we all have them.

God Bless!!


Posted by: MarkSentMe

I grew up Catholic and prayed the Rosary back then. I felt no connection to God in doing this and therefore stopped. I do not pray to Mary, as I feel prayer is a form of worship and the Bible says nothing about worshipping Mary. I do not take creeds nor do I recite them. Creeds do not save a person nor do creeds contribute to a person's salvation. I am saved. My prayers are from my heart. Most of my prayers are prayers of thanksgiving and I truly believe I am talking to God like I talk to a friend. I can tell Him anything. I can rejoice, I can cry, I can thank Him, I can vent my anger. None of it is repitition. None of it is rehearsed. None of it is mindless chatter (like singing the A-B-C song; it doesn't teach the ABC's, it's just a song).
I used to recite those creeds (Nicean creed, Apostle's creed etc) along with everyone. I could recite them forwards backwards and sideways and they meant nothing. My lips would move and I murmurred them and they meant nothing.
Sorry.


Posted by: Tatian

Yes, I remember the Rosary. I didn't seem to do much. We are advised that you don't have to think about what you are saying. Then to say "Mother of God" does give Mary too much if you accidently attribute to her the qualities of the Godhead coming from her, as God is Father and the source of Wisdom and Truth...

But the brothers explain correctly that she is not and intelligently avoid worshipping her. They say if prayer is petition then we don't pray to Mary but ask her to pray for us...

The Biblical image of Heaven does not portray prayer s being said by ones listening to the Earth.

But once in a Catholic Pentecostal meeting with Fr Peter Mary Rookey I prayed it and devoted myself to looking up and not around... and as the priest mentioned I began to experience the scent of Nard from Jesus burial or anointing.

I looked around and the fragrance left me. A matter to think on.

You shouldn't pray the sorrowful mysteries for Jesus pain is well over and even Jesus rejoices in it now. Don't push out some mourning, be hungry when you think on it. Also it is best not to pay devotion to images of Jesus.

Again, Jesus is portrayed neat on the cross, rather he was badly wounded and no more had a beard.

I think now on praying the Rosary. But not "Pray for us sinners" but "Pray for us righteous"... A son, a daughter is not a sinner, we are justified in Christ. We are righteous.

Matthew writes that Mary bore Jesus her firstborn and none until after him.

Mary to be asked for from must be able to hear a thousand at once. If you are not 100% sure then you doubt.

Mary was assumed and had no sin? Didn't Mary come to arrest Jesus and put him away. Matt 12:46-50. She thought He'd gone mad, this was disobedient, a doubt.

The woman in Rev is the church the bride.

I pray discerningly as I need, healing, inso this and that, changes... equipping, mission knowledge..., angels to be empowered and sent... to achieve an objective...

I may pray a modified Rosary with Catholics.

I pray the Hour Father, elaborating and extending each part to my personal need and to those which matter to me and for them to matter. ...honoured be you name, then, Elohim, YHWH Tsidkenu... your kingdom come, into new hearts and deeper into your children's... your will be done, repentance, worship, love, taking the Spirits power..., daily bread= vitamins, police work, politics... forgive us, let us know it's for our good and give us grace and help inso... lead us not into temptation but grace that endures it and builds us to go thru and over... deliver us from evil persuasions, lies, violence and famines... For thine is the kingdom...

How is that?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Good explaination Tatian, but there are still problems-

1- Wether a person prays to Mary or asks her to pray for us is both still wrong. God declares in His Word, Jesus Christ is the "Way the Truth and the Life", that Jesus is our only intercessor to the Father, no one else. Thus, even asking Mary to pray for us, puts her ahead of keeping Jesus as Lord and Savior over us.

2- God declares in both Old and New Test we are not to speak with the dead or have connections with- "familiar spirits", thus we should not even pray to or ask a dead person to pray for us, as that is not of God.

3- your speaking of how Jesus looked on the cross was interesting and quite accurate until you mentioned his beard. I do not recall any references in God's Word where His hair features had been changed. We don't know even at this time, if Jesus ever had a beard to begin with.

Special note- there have been arguements for both sides, He had one, He didn't, but have seen no solid evidence to prove either one with no doubt.

You stated-

"But not "pray for us sinners but "pray for us rightceous"... a son a daughter is not a sinner, we are justified in Christ, we are rightceous."

I beg to differ while God does declare we are found rightceous for those who've recieved Salvation, we are still sinners. God declares we are set apart from the world, as we are no longer of the world, yet God still shows thru Paul and others, we still battle the "carnal nature"- old fleshly self and fall to sin.

Secondly- If no longer sinners, how is it when God speaks of our going to be with Him in the future, we must be cleansed- sinful takes on sinlessness, coruption takes on incoruption? Plus, God declares we are all still equally born in sin, thus we are still sinners. If truely rightceous and not sinners anymore, we wouldn't sin anymore, but we do.

Of which woman in Rev. do you speak of as being the Church? The harlot or the woman the devil was wroth with?

Actually, before you might go about answering the first part of my post, I suggest you rethink how you have posted the "Lord's Prayer", intermixed with a man made traditional one.

God clearly declares we are not to change the wording of His Word given us, both towards the end of the Old Test and at the end of Revelation. For those who do, there are dire consequences. Remember, God declares we are not to take His Word lightly.

God bless!!


Posted by: angelofthelord

Who said that Catholic's pray to Mary? We honor her as the mother of Jesus and ask her to intervene for us to the Father to hear our prayer petitions. Question??? When you were young and you wanted something, did you ask your father for it or did you ask your mother to ask your father for it. Many people I grew up with went thru the mother since "MOM" always was able to persuade "Dad" better than ourselves.

Anyway my point with the Rosary is that if you read the gospel daily, why not try and pray it for a change.


Posted by: Christian Commando

I understand your point angeloftheLord, but, God is still clear on such things. Even seeking dead people to speak to God on our behalf is wrong, in that Jesus alone is our intercessor to God.

But, there is also documented proof that the Roman catholic religion does have prayer rooms in most if not all thier main Churches for praying to dead people. Besides the fact, I've heard daily, on a Catholic radio station, statements from Catholic Leaders to pray to particular dead saints, including Mary, for specific requests.

Not to mention, if look in the Roman Catholic Creed, they go along with prayers to Mary, for the fact they believe the "Mother Mary" can do a "second work of Grace", in other words, she can grant Salvation under certain circumstances.

But, I'm not doing this to start trouble, but avoid having beliefs or practices shared here, that are not of God, to show we are fully for God from His Word. That, that, even goes over any man concieved authority, of which the Roman Catholics also claim equal authority of the Vatican and "Sacred Tradition" to God's Word.

While I do have alot of Catholic friends, I will not participate in thier particular religious practices, as many have turned away from God.

If you like, I can ask the Leadership here if alright that I post a particular website you can go to, in order to get the most uptodate facts on the beliefs of the Roman Catholic religion and it's doctrinal Creed beliefs.

God Bless!!


Posted by: diamondcreates

Dear Brothers and Sisters-

I too attended Catholic school from grammar school to graduating high school and was taught about the rosary beads and was given even though it wasn't our home religion we still had to take the rosary bead and learn what each section means. From the Creed to the Glory Be. I was raised in a house hold that had more than one religion. I too thought at the age of 9 that the prayer was going through one ear and out the other. Because at that age I didn't understand the power of prayer until I became a lot older. At that age I was thinking about recess and playing with my friends, not understanding what Lent meant and other events in the Catholic religion.

Please do not think I am bashing it - I basically lived it when I attended Catholic school for nearly 12 years. But once I graduated from high school - I continued to keep my rosary beads that was given to me in high school - (I still have them to this day) but I don't do the rosary beads any longer like I had done in my earlier days of doing the rosary beads every day. Today I talk to our Father - I cry and I too vent about what is happening in my life and then I calm down and continue to talk to our Father. One thing I can agree with is that with the rosary if you want to say something to our Father about what is taking place in your life you can't you have to say the 10 Hail Marys first and then Glory Be. And then after you say all that you there is still no place for you to say your prayer what is in your heart. I talk to HIM no matter if I am driving and I talk out loud to HIM and people in other cars look over at me like I am crazy. But I don't care I continue to talk to HIM.

Continue to be blessed and be encouraged in the Blood of the Lamb. For when praises go up the blessings definitely comes down.


Posted by: Tatian

Christian Commando, the hour Father should not be recited by wrote but applied to individual lives by them, the prayers.

Some of us do not need to pray for our daily bread in rich countries...

Moses commanded that Jews sould wear their hair down to the shoulders and grow beards and not cut them. Also the NT has a passage about bearded people and scythians, both justifiable.

Lev 19:27 --Ye shall not shave the corners of your head round, neither shalt thou mutilate the corners of thy beard. Darby.

much of the OT refers to beards. Yet I looked but could not find myself any mention of Jesus beard being ripped out.

They dishonoured Jesus and he scorned the shame of it.

K Copeland rebuked us for the religious tradition of calling ourselves "sinners" and for saying "I am just an old sinner saved by grace" quoting 2Cor 5:21= I am the righteousness of God in Christ. In Christ, righteous but a sinner? Righteous or a sinner and salvation is a guarantee, John in his epistles talks of light and love and coming to be loving and walk in the light.

I refered to the woman Satan was wroth with.

Mary is alive, but can she hear us, and more than one at a time? How do you test for, familiar spirits?

I agree with diamondcreates, Jesus blood is profoundly important. The central imager of Christianity which Paul held out was the cross and Jesus blood was she for a reason.


Posted by: angelofthelord

Who said anything that We Catholics pray to the dead. As far as I know Mary the Mother of our Lord was ASSUMED into Heaven. If praying to ask the Mother of God to intervene for us how do you interpret the multiple visions of Fatima where Our Bessed Mother told the Fatima children (I think there were 3, maybe 4) that we are to pray for the salvation of Russia or else the world was to be destroyed? How do you explain the millions of Catholics and other christians (most recently) that have taken up praying the Holy Rosary? Also if Mary the Blessed Mother of God is not that important than why does the Bible stress HER name so much in the new testament. Her whole life, from the moment the Angel appeared to her announcing she was the Mother of the Son Of God, through the boyhood of the Child Christ, the beginning of His public life at the marriage of Cana, the Passion and the death at Calvary up to the time of her assumption into Heaven is lovingly and reverently portrayed in the Bible. If Mary was not that imporatant as you say she was, then why didn't the bible just mention her as the mother and move on. No God wanted the world to see that this woman was picked by HIM to be the Mother of our Lord and Savior and we as children of the same God should show respect to her as we show our own earthly mother.

Have you ever read the address that the Holy Father Gave at the opening session of the Pontifical Academy of Sciencwe on Febuary 21, 1943; two years before the first atomic bomb was dropped. Look it up you might find it of some interest.

Archbishop Fulton J Sheen in his book "The World's Greatest Love", discussed various problems common to Mankind of all times and in his intimate manner reveals clearly that every problem, however difficult may be resolved. He further stated that mankind's need of the Mother of God and her burning LOVE for her children. Don't you realize the trememdous resurgence of the devotion to Mary is God's way of emphasizes the worth and dignity of mankind as against the false DOCTRINES which have so confused the modern world.

With the Holy Rosary, the Christian Life is inseparable from the joys of birth and youth, the struggles of maturity against the passions and evil, and finally the hope of glory into Heaven.

But back to my original question, why don't some christian pray the Holy Rosary when it is a time of remembrence to our Lord and a prayer of the Gospel?

Chris
angelofthelord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
I understand your point angeloftheLord, but, God is still clear on such things. Even seeking dead people to speak to God on our behalf is wrong, in that Jesus alone is our intercessor to God.

But, there is also documented proof that the Roman catholic religion does have prayer rooms in most if not all thier main Churches for praying to dead people. Besides the fact, I've heard daily, on a Catholic radio station, statements from Catholic Leaders to pray to particular dead saints, including Mary, for specific requests.

Not to mention, if look in the Roman Catholic Creed, they go along with prayers to Mary, for the fact they believe the "Mother Mary" can do a "second work of Grace", in other words, she can grant Salvation under certain circumstances.

But, I'm not doing this to start trouble, but avoid having beliefs or practices shared here, that are not of God, to show we are fully for God from His Word. That, that, even goes over any man concieved authority, of which the Roman Catholics also claim equal authority of the Vatican and "Sacred Tradition" to God's Word.

While I do have alot of Catholic friends, I will not participate in thier particular religious practices, as many have turned away from God.

If you like, I can ask the Leadership here if alright that I post a particular website you can go to, in order to get the most uptodate facts on the beliefs of the Roman Catholic religion and it's doctrinal Creed beliefs.

God Bless!!



Posted by: Tatian

Mary came to have Jesus taken away as though he were out of His mind.
Mat 12:46 But while he was yet speaking to the crowds, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, seeking to speak to him.
Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren are standing without, seeking to speak to thee.
Mat 12:48 But he answering said to him that spoke to him, Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And, stretching out his hand to his disciples, he said, Behold my mother and my brethren;
Mat 12:50 for whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in the heavens, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Darby.

It also says she bore no children until after Jesus.

It does not mention an assumption. This is from the oral teachings recorded about is it, 300 years after the birth of Jesus.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Well, as far as being or not being sinners, God declares those who belong to Him are rightceous, covered under the Blood of Jesus shed for our sins. But, we are still sinners, otherwise as seen in Scripture, we would not all be equally "born in sin" as yet, but cleansed now.

We cannot be tho, for even if no longer of the world, we are still living in this sinful world. God has given His Children the power to overcome sin by the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, but that isn't saying we are no longer sinners. We still are.

I intend to gracefully bow out of this exchange, as I have seen enough evidence documented, to show these beliefs I shared about go against God, besides the fact the Pope went on TV several years back at the Middle East and proclaimed Muslims as brothers and sisters to the Catholic Church in Christ.

The roman Catholic Religion is one of the most popular and oldest of Christian religions. but must admit, am losing faith in a religion adopting such beliefs that clearly go against God. this is not to say people following it are bad or wrong.

All religions, because they ar man concieved, have thier failings, being from falable creatures. Thus, there is no more for me to say.

One last note people- realize, when Jesus gave us the Lord's prayer, there was no other He held us to pray to but God the Father only. Secondly, you'll find, while the Apostles spoke of high esteem, the previous Leaders for God of Old Test times, they never once, say anything of praying to them to intercede to God for us.

Lastly- Yes, while we are to hold previous people of importance for God of the past who are dead, being only falable people when alive, not as Jesus Christ- God in the flesh is and was perfect, when the Apostles clearly show in Scripture we are to pray all prayers to God the Father seeking Jesus Christ only, as our intercessor, as the Apostles show Jesus will present our petitions before the Father.

God Bless all!!


Posted by: angelofthelord

Let me ask you (those who don't pray the Holy Rosary)... With the growing number of young adults taking up the rosary to say daily; (I hold one such group here in Canton with many non catholic christians), if your teenager came home with a rosary in their pocket or say just carrying it and you notice it, would you; knowing that you don't say it, encourage them or discourage them.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen said, "The rosary is the book of the blind, where souls see and there enact the greatest drama of love the world has ever known; it is the book of the simple, which initiates them into mysteries and knowledge more satisfying than the education of other men; it is the book of the aged, whose eyes close upon the shadow of this world, and open on the substance of the next. The power of the rosary is beyond description."

For those who think there is nothing in the bible about the assumption, better read the book of Revelation chapter 12. Mary (and messianic community) is "given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach." (Rev. 12: 1-14).


"The immaculate mother of God," announced Pope Pius XII in his Munificentissimus Deus in 1950, "when the course of her earthly life was run, was assumed in body and soul to heavenly glory." The proclamation of the Assumption of Mary as "divinely revealed dogma," while a modern event, was consistent with beliefs that date back at least to the 3rd century, and perhaps even before.

Since Mary was, on one level at least, an ordinary human being, her assumption suggests the future that is open to every human: the entry into glory through and after a life of walking with God. Like Israel, like the Church, like the messianic community, and like Mary, the individual who travels with God will, in spite of all earthly persecutions, be taken up to a place of security and sanctity in the wilderness. Or as Pope Paul VI put it: The Assumption "is a feast that set before the eyes of the Church and all mankind the image and consoling proof of the fulfillment of their final hope."

Chris
anelofthelord


Posted by: Christian Commando

Ok... one last remark here. All I see written here about this Arch Bishop is, claims that sound as tho the book of the Roseary is equal to the Bible for all it can do for people.

I seriously question that, among the other points I've already made. Plus the fact, documented proof shows, the vatican sends out sermons to the lower churches, whose messages are not directly from Scriptural readings.

Check in with "Bearean Beacon Ministries" sometime. You might be supprised at the state of apostate the roman Catholic church has reached in christianity.

I say no more.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Tatian

I didn't grow up a Christian, so my aim is to love God, and with all my heart. I prayed the Rosary but it did very little for me. I want revivalism at work, revive my heart of God. Put the truth and presence of your love in my heart. That I may love you back, and from your forgiveness.


Posted by: JeriRose12

What I want to know is: Are Cahtolics allowed to read the Bible? I was told that the leadership EXPLAINS the Bible to the common man, and the lay person is not allowed to read it. I had Catholic co-workers, and I believe they told me this. My point is: The Catholic leadership could say anything they wanted to and have the parishioners beleiving it, including error, becasue the parishioners can not check to see if it lines up with The Word of God. They could not read the scriptures daily to see if these things were so, as the Beareans did.

Wasn't William Tyndale burned at the stake for trying to get the Bible to the common man? And that was under King Henry the VIII, who was Catholic, and the reading of the Bible was forbidden.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2005


Posted by: Chimbamu

Brethren, we will answer one another with lovingkindness, bearing one another and forgiving one another.

First of all, it is difficult for me to answer to these threads as we are encouraged not to take part in religious arguments, but rather we should spend all our times in prayer, thanksgiving, praising God and loving God with all our hearts, our souls and our neighbour as ourselves.

I was born catholic, and discipline especially during prayer times. Also my latest testimony of what i have been through in the last few weeks, when i had no money and no one to turn to, and even the last few years, the catholic church has been open when i have cold with no heating in my house. The priests understanding and caring when i was felt abuse in my life. They pray for the poor, the needy, the hungry, the suffering, the sick every single day - and they turn no one away. I have never heard of any religious argument there and there is no time for it - ever. They are also charismatic as far as i know, and there is never any arguments about the teas and coffees as in other churches, or even of offerings/tithes.

So Saints, it is not important how people have been taught to believe by their parents, because remember this is the issue, the most important thing is for us to remain in our individual calling, to love God with our hearts, our soul, our minds, and love one another as ourselves, remembering that this is the will of God for our lives.

We thank God for the blessings of this prayer board, and we can come free of restriction in Jesus' name. Amen!


Posted by: angelofthelord

If you say it wrong to say the rosary or to place Mary, the mother of God as a divine intervention for us then how do you explain the apparition of Fatima where it has been recorded that the Blessed Mother appeared to 3 children and told them that everyone must pray for the conversion of the world or else the world would see another world war (WWII)?

How do explain the numerous sighting in just the last century of the Blessed Mother, Mary; appearing to others throughout the world?

Chris
Angelofthelord


Posted by: MarkSentMe

Quote:
the time of her assumption into Heaven is lovingly and reverently portrayed in the Bible.


WHERE in Scripture does it mention Mary going bodily to Heaven?

From the book entitled "What Every Catholic Should Ask" by James G. McCarthy:

"The Bible says nothing about the remainder of mary's life. Indeed, taken as a whole, it has little to say about her.
The Catholic Church, by contrast, has a great deal to say about Mary, often going far beyond the biblical record. For example, the Church says that Mary was born free of original sin. It calls this the "doctrine of the Immaculate Conception." In 1854, Pope Pius IX declared it dogma, an official teaching allegedly received from God. Though the Bible says that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23) the Church said that Mary never sinned.
The Church also teaches that at the end of mary's life God took her bodily into heaven. This is the "doctrine of the Assumption of Mary." Pope Pius XII declared it dogma in 1950. The Bible makes no mention of God taking Mary into heaven.
The Church says that Mary sits enthroned in heaven as "Queen of Heaven and Earth." It instructs the faithful to praise her as "Virgin Most Powerful," "Mother of Mercy," "Seat of Wisdom," and "All Holy." People are to direct their prayers to her as "Advocate," "Helper," "Mother of Grace" (through whom all blessings flow) and "Mediatrix" (the feminine form of
mediator)
The Bible reserves such titles for God. It teaches that there is "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5). It tells Christians to bring their needs directly to their heavenly Father in jesus' name (John 14:13, 14) Nowhere in the Bible is there an example of anyone praying to mary or to the saints.
Finally, the Church says that Mary is the "Refuge of Sinners." Catholics should surrender their souls at the hour of their death wholly to her care, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church. By contrast, the Bible says that we should put our complete trust in Christ to save us (Romans 10:8-13)"

John 14:6 clearly states "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." No mention of Mary. No mention of other people (saints).


Posted by: JeriRose12

The Bible does say not to be involved in foolish disputes (Titus 3:9).

It also says to contend for the faith (Jude 1:3).

So what I would need to know for sure is, do you believe that faith in Jesus Christ ALONE and the work of His shed blood on the cross is the way to salvation? Or do I have to do penance, say the hail Mary's, go to confession, take communion in the Catholic Chruch and so on? I was told by Catholic's (the ones I worked with) that I was going to hell because I was not a member of the Catholic church. That is adding something to salvation that was never expressed by Jesus. If you are not truly born again -- and I know or know of those rasied Catholic who say they weren't -- then this is not in the category of a "foolish dispute." This is me trying to bring someone to salvation so that they can go to heaven.

I would "argue" exactly the same with a Baptist who said he was going to heaven because he had been baptised or a Christian Reformed person who said he was going to heaven because he had been confirmed into the church. Neither of these actions save you; just like saying The Holy Rosary, this is ritual and form. I was raised Assembly of God and we were told (in so many words) that if we did not attend church EVERY Sunday, we would miss the rapture! Well, attending church EVERY Sunday is not the path to salvation, either. Neither is being the one who yells the loudest in praising Jesus (another idea conveyed to me in the Assembly of God church). There are people sitting in all kinds of churches that are not saved! Every one of them needs to hear that the ONLY WAY to salvation is Jesus Christ, nothing more, nothing less! Jesus is THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE -- not Mary and not the saints. This is why we take such a strong position. We want all the ritual stripped away, so we can see if people believe in salvation through the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

The Bible plainly says, "....and whoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." It also says, "He that has not the Son has not life...." It further says, "Beleive on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." It says, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life." Then, there is "He who belives and is baptised will be saved...." If going to confession or praying to Mary or ANY of this was necessary, why did Jesus not state this as an important tenant of salvation?

In Jude we are told to contend for the faith. I just am not sure how you can contend for saying The Holy Rosary, as this has nothing to do with salvation. We are told salvation is in Jesus Christ and in no other Name can we be saved. In The Holy Rosary you quote something reagrading Mary that is extra-Biblical, yet you seem to think The Holy Rosary is important to salvation. If you can not read the Bible, how would you even know what the faith is you are contending for?

That gets back to my origninal question: Are Catholics allowed to read the Bible?

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2005


Posted by: JeriRose12

My question has not been answered. Can and do Catholics read the Bible? If not, how can you back up the things you say with truth? The Bible is our ulimate authority, and if the Bible does not tell us to do something, why would we do it? I only do what The Word commands me. Jesus is THE LIVING WORD. He will agree with the Witten Word every time. He will never instruct anything contrary it. He will always be in perfect harmony with The Word that God passed down to us through holy men who were moved on by The Holy Spirit to write it.

I am curious how you support your claim that it is necessary to pray The Holy Rosary? Do the Catholic leaders read to you from scripture anything to support this? When you are not allowed to own and read your own Bible, you have no way to know if what they are telling you is the truth. You did not support the ecouragement to pray The Holy Rosary to us with Bible verses. Therefore, I do not feel in anyway compelled to say The Holy Rosary.

I see that when I asked that question (about whether Catholics read the Bible), you let things drop. You obviously can not support this with scripture. You said a thing or two above about Fatima and so on.... but not one Bible verse in sight. I am pretty sure, therefore, that you do not read the Bible.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in The Bible


Posted by: MarkSentMe

Quote:
Question??? When you were young and you wanted something, did you ask your father for it or did you ask your mother to ask your father for it. Many people I grew up with went thru the mother since "MOM" always was able to persuade "Dad" better than ourselves.


This would hold true if the Trinity were made up of the Father, the Son and the mother. But it is not. The Trinity is comprised of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.
Jesus clearly states in John 14:6 "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through Me. No mention of going through "Mom" or anyone else. ONLY Jesus is the way to eternal life. Only Jesus is the way to Salvation.
There is NOTHING we can do to "earn" our salvation. Nothing.
"Not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:9)

There is no magic prayer or "things" to collect (sacraments), ONLY Jesus and His sacrifice on the cross. His dying and being raised from the dead has made it possible for you and I to enter the Kingdon of heaven. Nothing more is needed!
"For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:13)
That's not just for non-Catholics. It says "Everyone".


On Fatima: This is from a website called the skeptic's dictionary:
"When one applies fundamental rules of logic to the situation, even if the presence of the oil cannot be explained, one cannot presume that the inability to explain something automatically makes it miraculous."


Posted by: Chimbamu

I am laughing Sister JeriRose12, of course Catholics read the Bible, at every mass there are biblical verses and scripture readings. Yes, they read the Bible everyday and the priest takes time to explain the meanings, and how the scripture concerns us today. It is such an awesome time!!!!

I myself was born catholic, was in catholic schools throughout. Praying everyday, and reading scripture, you wont believe it but sister made us memorize the book of Mathew Mark, Luke and John by heart, and we would say it by heart. We also learnt to sing and pray, and also we learnt biblical stories that were thorough.

Personally, i believe, it is not right to give opinions of other people's religions without them feeling bad, so lets leave the catholics alone, just the fact that we are here at this prayer board is testimony enough that God is at work in every place.

Yes, catholics read the Bible!!!!


Posted by: Tatian

Catholics, such as from Lumen Verum Apologetics, say that in the Letters it is written "...and keep the oral teachings we left you" and they are about the very Catholic things such as devotion to Mary and transubstantiation...

They were recorded about 300 years later and Martin Luther did not retain them. He was an Augustinian monk and Augustine wrote things that were Mary orientated. There is conflict there, but Augustine was a prolific writer.

Catholics point to Mary's role at the wedding at Cana. But Jesus was responding to faith, not honouring His mother.


Posted by: akabezalel

This thread is being closed because it is degenerating into a "Them and Us" debate.

The Bible is the Word of God.

If something is not found in the Bible then please refrain from posting 'facts' supposedly said or done by the founders of the early church.

This is not a place of argument.

The Rosary, praying to Mary and the Saints and other rituals have no place here on the board because they hold some serious flaws.

Traditional belief is not enough proof if it cannot be backed up with the Bible.