I think it's terrible when ministers fake healings. How do you deal with these black sheep? This totally destroys the trust of the people in christians.
And I also ask myself what does God do if a minister fakes healings? Does he still support his ministry? Is it possible that God uses a christian who fakes healings?
Somehow I find it hard to trust anyone today. For example I had a pretty high opinion of Bonnke for example. But I have also heard things from christians which were at his conferences where almost nobody got healed. This is very confusing. But I also cannot imagine that he would fake healings. But somehow these things make me question which healings are real and which aren't. It's always like "In Africa peopl get healed of AIDS, lost legs start to grow back etc..." but we never see these things in Europe. Why??? Is God not the same? Why do we not see such giant miracles in Europe? Isn't this strange?
Seriously how can somebody be a christian and fake healings? I think I will never understand this. God doesn't want this. He doesn't want us to fake healings or to do as if we are healed when we are not. Todd Bentley once said this and I thought this was really cool, that he said this. I like it when people are simply honest. If I'm not healed then I wanna be able to say it and not be scared of admitting it.
Posted by: Christian Commando
My friend-
question 1- Is God supporting such things? No. these are imitating works of satan that appear to be of God to decieve people.
Question 2- Can God use these fake healers? We must remember people of the past who ministered for God, yet were caught up in sometimes terrible addictions to alcohol and other things. Some even could go behind the pulpit and deliver such Power of God thru a message, it would make people fall to the ground and more, but still go out after and get enamoured in thier addictive sin.
Question 3- A very close old school classmate and strong youth Pastor friend of mine is in this situation. He is truely saved and reborn. He started out purely doing God's unadulterated work.
But, since he started watching revival tapes of revivals letting false doctrines into them,. he then also started adopting these practices. Being decieved, even his closest Christian friends couldn't get thru to him these deceptions.
Hence, the reason things appear so enamorous to churches, they readily accept him and his followers in at the start, but eventually after considerable ruin has happened in it, they finally wake up to the deception and remove them for good and have to go thru alot of rebuilding, restoration and healing from it.
But, he is a called of god minister, but only decieved as many of God's Word speaks of following false doctrines, doctrines of demons, etc.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
Faking healings can never be good. How can a pastor believe this?
Posted by: Christian Commando
Well... they believe in those fake healings, because satan has decieved them into believing a satanic belief or practice can be acceptable to God under certain circumstances.
The excuse my friend used was- look at that minister punching that guy while praying over him. Look at that guy making blubbering sounds while under the power of the Holy Spirit. Look at those people running around the seating throwing pieces of clothes off as they go, etc, etc.
All lies of satan, designed to decieve God's children and worse yet, many leaders of God to believe or practice them.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
Um. I also know an evangelist who once told that God told him to punch somebody in the stomach and then he fell down. Would God do this or not? I think this is hard to answer.
Posted by: Christian Commando
Violence is of evil, not good. God would not lead a child of his to intentionally hurt another under that circumstance.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Violence is of evil, not good. God would not lead a child of his to intentionally hurt another under that circumstance.
God Bless!!
Maybe he didn't get hurt by this.
I mean when people are laid hands on and fly through the air and land on the ground they maybe also hurt themselves.
Posted by: Christian Commando
My friend- "fly thru the air"? I've never seen that, nor have I read this in God's Word that I can recall. Enlighten me of this being of God please.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
I have often heard that people were laid hands on and then they flew through the air and landed on their backs like a few metres away from where they stood.
Posted by: Christian Commando
Frederik- That is a "first" for me. People, when normally "slain in the Spirit", are prayed over and just drop to the floor and quiver, shake, lay still moving alittle now and then, some may lay on the floor curled up shaking fairly hard etc. But, never have I seen anyone go flying back in the air off the ground by such means.
I suggest that is clearly demonic, since seen no evidence of this in God's Word. Yet, we can read about several of the above I mentioned with people in God's Word, Daniel for one plus many more.
Be careful my boy what you choose to accept as "Holy Spirit controlled" for reactions to His Power, wether seen in God's Word or not.
BTW- I watched ministers claim under Holy Spirit control, sit and make blubbering sounds, people after being prayed over running and throwing clothes off as mentioned before.
God declares He is not a God of confusion. He declares His speech is not one of meaninglessness or nonsense.
God Bless!!
Posted by: His Image
The answer is simple about why God cannot heal in 'civilized' countries:
People like you who think they are so smart and sophisticated and learned ask so many questions and sow so much doubt into their own lives and into the hearts and lives of others that you tie Gods hands and He cannot move the way He moves in the countries who have no room to doubt or question, for them it is a matter of life or death and they choose life.
Which do you choose? Do you choose to continually question every minute jot and tittle or do you choose to believe and be healed?
I think we all have seen your choice so far.
Question and blame God and call His people fakes, phonies and freaks simply because you cannot muster enough courage to believe God and His Love for you.
Now you will probably take offense at the way I did not sugar coat this truth for you and get angry and huffy... Go ahead... I am not afraid of you or your anger... if you really want to grow in God you will read this and learn, if not you can just go stew in your own juices and get nowhere slow.
Your Choice.
Posted by: Frederik
The problem is that ministers from such churches where christians roll on the floor laughing or where christians behave like animals and make animal noises usually say stuff like "you cannot limit the holy spirit" and they also threaten that you blaspheme the spirit if you say that this is demonic. This is scary. What if you think something is demonic and you're wrong?
By the way, the preacher who said this was Reinhard Bonnke. he said he once laid his hands on a women and she landed far away from him. I cannot really imagine that Reinhard Bonnke is controlled by demons.
So many things don't seem to make sense.
Posted by: Christian Commando
My boy- I do not know who Reinhard Bonnke is, as have never seen him or heard him minister before.
I will say this tho, I've seen the Holy Spirit bring uncontrolled laughter over people at times when prayed over, but also seen demonic activity when they have caused a person to act like an animal as well. (See the story of King Saul going after David for "laughter" and King nebecaneezer for "animal curse").
Don't worry about those warning of limiting God or the Holy Spirit if producing demonic activity in people that goes against God. They are the ones who'll be judged by God for false testimonies, miracles and more God speaks of.
God shows us the guidelines we can use to tell if something is of Him or not in His Word, for spiritual activity. To go by His Word, as God instructs us to, we do not limit God, but understand where He gives us boundaries God stays within, to prove what is of Him and what is not.
Here is another example- There have been at least 3 other cases of an affliction where a person started to change and develope animal like features over the centuries, consistant with the curse God put on King Nebecaneezer. Some slightly different for features, but the over all effect is the same. I don't recall the name they gave the disease.
As far as Mr. Bonnke, I'd have to see him in action and listen to his message to know if of God or not. Others may know better than I, but not myself personally.
God Bless!!
Posted by: MarkSentMe
I believe in healings where people pray for the health of a person, lay hands on the person and GOD heals that person. Wholeheartedly. What I do NOT believe is someone on TV with their "magic sportcoat" which they wave at a person and that person falls over. I don't believe that for a New York minute. But I can tell you of a friend of mine from church:
She went to donate blood and in the screening of her blood, was found to be HIV-positive. The tests results were documented. She had been married for a few years (and is still married to the same husband) so this revelation was somewhat disturbing. She went to several different facilities to have her blood tested and each time the results were the same- HIV-positive.
One Sunday before she was to go for more testing, she went up at altar call, and a few women had prayed with her and laid hands on her. She sat down with the pastor and she prayed for the Lord to look after her husband and children. When she had finished praying, Pastor Todd prayed. He asked God to disregard that last prayer! My friend was appalled! He then prayed and asked God to removed the disease from her and heal her completely. She was scheduled for further testing and then to plot a course of treatment. When she went for testing, she was FREE of all HIV!! She had to go back a month later and again- no HIV! She has to go for testing every 6 months and for the past year and a half, she has been totally HIV-negative! Praise the Lord.
Now did Pastor Todd take off his suit jacket and slap my friend? No. Did he smack her upside the head and knock her over, yelling,"You will be healed!!"? No. Did he pray for her in front of the whole congregation, making a big show out of it? No.
Yes, there are fakes and phonies and showmanship out there. But there is also some real healing and miracles going on. God is working and people are being healed by HIM and Him alone! A thousand people can pray for someone and lay hands or one person can pray and ask for God's healing; the bottom line is, God will heal whom He chooses to heal. Whetehr a person is healed or a person becomes terminally ill, God can use both situations.
Posted by: Frederik
Cool testimony, Mark!
Do you know wether she felt something when she was prayed for? Did she know she got healed? This would interest me.
Posted by: MarkSentMe
She didn't describe anything spectacular. Just praying like she prays everyday.
She knew she was healed when she went for her test. It wasn't like she felt demons or anything leaving her.
Posted by: Christian Commando
Frederik- God works on people individually. According to what He knows best, some will feel something, where others won't. This is what we might call a "mystery" of God why this is, yet we can know God knows best each time with each person.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
I asked this because often preachers do it like this. They pray for somebody and then ask the person wether she is healed and if she says "I don't know" then it's already clear to them that this person has no faith. I mean this is how many people do it. And if somebody is not healed then they will say: "No surprise, you also didn't have faith..."
Posted by: Christian Commando
I know Bro in Christ. But remember, not all are always healed imediately. I've witnessed people healed, just in showing up at particular healing meetings. Others have gotten healing while prayed over imediately, while still others have reported healings sometime afterwards.
It will depend upon God, working by His Holy Spirit, per person.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
Then why do some preachers teach that God wants to heal us right now? Not tomorrow, but right now. They also come up with this "faith is now, hope is in the future" stuff...
Posted by: Christian Commando
Frederik-
I am considered what is known as a fundamentalist Christian- I take God's Word for what It means, as literally written.
Some fundamentalists take this too literal or extreme if you will. Then God's Word begins to get distorted. Just the same as being liberal, which I am also, where God dictates, but too liberal means anything is acceptable to God.
Keeping God's Word in context, to how God dictates Concepts and understandings of them is how we need to take His Word. Not thru personal beliefs.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
But these preachers also use the bible and support their stuff with the bible. It's not that easy. Does the bible distinguish between faith and hope? Is hope inferior?
Posted by: MarkSentMe
IF God chooses to heal someone immediately, it will be done. The Vatican insists on immediate healing (within 24 hours) to be considered a miracle. But for the rest of us patient people, healing occurs in God's time, not ours. I posted a prayer request back in March for my friend Robin's Dad. He has cancer and was considered terminal and inoperable. I posted a prayer request and people on this board reponded (Thank You!) Her Dad isn't completely cancer-free, but the tumors are shrunk down to almost undetectable. This has taken from March until now. The Vatican would not consider that a miracle. I don't know if they would even give God a high-five for that, but I THANK GOD for giving Robin's Dad another chance and for working on Robin's heart and Robin's mother's heart! I'd say that's three miracles in one! God used Robin's Dad to soften 3 people's hearts and to witness to those around them!
Having lost my grandfather to cancer and knowing he suffered for 6 years, I consider any reversal of cancer a miracle.
The stuff on TV is just that- stuff on TV! Do you not think that that TV preacher has "plants" in the audience? Someone in a wheelchair acting? Someone with nothing wrong with them just pretending so as to get people to call in and pledge money? It happens sometimes.
Preachers do NOT heal anyone. GOD heals people. He is the Great Physician. He is the Great Healer. Not someone on TV with a bad comb-over and a tweed sportcoat!
And NO ONE can know why God heals this one or does not heal that one. God kept my grandfather alive, suffering, for 6 years. Why? I don't know. I believe it was so that someone, anyone would witness to my grandfather and bring him to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. As far as I know, no one did (I was not a Christian at the time, and I knew nothing about being a Christian). And as good as my grandfather was, as smart as he was, as kind as he was, as generous as he was, I sadly believe he is forever separated from God. So if I learned anything from this, it's that unless we are saved, unless we have accepted Jesus Christ's sacrifice and free gift of eternal life, unless we believe in Him and Him alone for our salvation, unless we confess and turn from our sins, we will spend eternity forever separated from God.
Posted by: MarkSentMe
I have two yellow rubber bracelets that I wear. One says "HAVE FAITH" the other says "HAVE HOPE" Our pastor speaks more of faith than of hope. Maybe it's because people use "HOPE" interchangeably as "WISH". I have heard people say,"I hope this will happen" and it sounds as if they really are saying,"I WISH this would happen". Faith, in my opinion, is stronger than hope. I can hope something will happen. But if I have faith something will happen, it is a more tangible statement.
I "hope" I can get my house sold. But I have FAITH that God has a plan for us, and if His plan includes selling our house, then so be it! Hope seems wishy-washy. But FAITH is putting your trust in the unseen. Believing that we are not just floating through life, affected by whatever blows our way. Faith is believing that we have a purpose and that God is in control and that He is not out to hurt us or lead us into danger.
Posted by: Christian Commando
Jesus Christ coming to earth and dieing for our sins, to be ressurrected and overcome death by sin is our "Blessed Hope". Faith comes from that for our hearing of this, because it comes from a belief in things unseen for us.
If you were told you'd die for sure tommorrow and had no way to avoid it, would you have hope of surviving thru that?
Man had no hope when he first sinned in Adam and Eve. It wasn't 'till God provided that "hope" of a future life with God again. God provided "coats of skins" to temporarily keep His True children "covered" until christ could come and pay the ultimate price.
When God provided the temporary covering, now man had "hope" for the future.
Both are equally important my friend. God bless!!
Posted by: Frederik
Um... but if you want to be healed and pray for healing then you also cannot surely know that you'll be healed, can you? If you cannot really know it then it's also not faith but once again hope.
Posted by: Christian Commando
Wrong my boy. God will absolutely for sure heal you. but, it may be a special time and place it will happen. Neither you nor I will know that.
It might happen when another is present who is lost to God, in which this healing will bring the other to seek God and Salvation.
God Bless!
Posted by: Frederik
If God would always heal then nobody would die sick..
Posted by: Christian Commando
Look my friend, quit going in circles, you know about God's timing and purpose. You've got your answer.
