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Was Cain the first murderer?

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Posted by: Frederik

Or is it also possible that since Adam and Eve also had other children that maybe somebody else murdered another person before Cain murdered Abel?


Posted by: akabezalel

Why do you insist on twisting and changing what the Bible says? Don't you realize the penalty for messing with God's word this way? You don't just change jots and tiddles you add imaginary people, places or events!

The Bible says that the only people at the time were Adam and Eve and they only had 2 sons at that time. One of the sons killed the other in a fit of rage and jealousy.

Are you calling God a liar?


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by akabezalel
Why do you insist on twisting and changing what the Bible says? Don't you realize the penalty for messing with God's word this way? You don't just change jots and tiddles you add imaginary people, places or events!

The Bible says that the only people at the time were Adam and Eve and they only had 2 sons at that time. One of the sons killed the other in a fit of rage and jealousy.

Are you calling God a liar?


Oh man.... (where do I call God a liar?)

If there were only Adam,Eve,Cain and Abel then why does Cain say to God whoever finds me will kill me? Ever thought about this?
And where did Cain get his wife? Did Cain marry Eve or what? Or do you not even think about such things?

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

It is clear that Adam and Eve had also gotten other children within this process of time.

As a christian you gotta be prepared for such questions or do you just want to stand there and threaten everybody that if he doesn't believe he'll go to hell?


Where did Cain get his wife?
Genesis 4:17

(Gen. 4:17) - "Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. 17And Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son," (NASB).
We see in the Bible in Genesis 3 where Adam and Eve were cursed and sent out of the Garden of Eden. In Genesis 4, Cain kills Abel. In Genesis 4:17 above we see that Cain had relations with his wife. Where did he get his wife? The answer is simple. Cain married one of his sisters.
Genesis 5:4 says, "Then the days of Adam after he became the father of Seth were eight hundred years, and he had other sons and daughters." We see that Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters. The genetic lineage of Adam and Eve was perfect so marrying a sister wasn't going to cause birth defects. It wasn't until much later, during the time of Moses, that incest was forbidden as the genetic pool became less and less able to stand interbreeding. "‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD," (Lev. 18:6).


Posted by: Christian Commando

You haven't paid close attention to Scripture there have you?

It states clearly where Adam and Eve had concieved the first two children- Caine and Able. (First two).

Yes, they had others after that my friend, but God shows the "first two" were those two. You asked if it were possible another killed Able. That is questioning what God clearly declares in His Word.

Caine's wife was a sister who was born after Caine and Able. Adam lived for 1,000 years, he and Eve produced quite a few children, but after the first two- Caine and Able.

Be careful of treading on such ground with God my friend. Read towards the end of the Old Test what God speaks of those who change It, as well as the warning god gives at the end of Revelation about doing such things.

God bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

No, I did not ask this.

Let's analyze the scenario.

Cain and Abel were the first children.

I have no clue how long Cain and Abel lived until Abel was killed.

But it is clear that when Cain killed Abel Adam and Eve already must have had many other children otherwise Cain would not have feared for his life cause somebody might kill him.

I think it should be clear until now.

What I wanted to know is wether it is possible that other children of Adam and Eve already committed a murder before Cain murdered Abel. Or was Cain the very first murderer? This is what I wanted to know. I mean most likely the other children of Adam and Eve also sinned and did something wrong. I mean why does the bible focus on Cain and Abel? Was it because they were special in some way or was it because Cain was the first murderer and the other children of Adam and Eve did nothing special which would have been worth being written down in the bible? Know what I mean?


Posted by: Christian Commando

My boy, read this Scripture-

Gen. 4:8- "And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up and against Abel his brother and slew him".

Now do you understand? it's in plain language what happened. Never challenge God as such again, ok?

BTW- that comes from the KJV version.

God bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Oh man, I think you didn't even get what I am asking... forget it.
I am not challenging God.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Frederik, some friendly advice. When God says something unmistakeable for understanding it, do not ever question it if a true Child of God.

God Himself warns His Children never ever to take His Word lightly. It is here with us for a reason and we are not to question what It says, when is very clear about the subject.

Wether you want to admit it or not, questioning what God declares is questioning God Himself, knowing His Word is- "God Breathed", inspired thru people from God by the Holy Spirit.

God declared He spoke these Words. Christ spoke God's Word in His teachings. He also declared the "Comforter"- Holy Spirit, would come to lead us to all Truths. Thus, to question what God spoke thru these inspired and Holy Spirit led people, is to question God and His Word directly. If a true child of God, you don't do that. Particularly in changing the wording or meaning as you had.

I know your asking if someone else could've killed Able. Absolutely not. As Christ declared, if it were so, I would have told you, so too would God have. So no, there is no other possibility than what God declared. Understand my friend?

THE END!! God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Frederik, some friendly advice. When God says something unmistakeable for understanding it, do not ever question it if a true Child of God.

God Himself warns His Children never ever to take His Word lightly. It is here with us for a reason and we are not to question what It says, when is very clear about the subject.

Wether you want to admit it or not, questioning what God declares is questioning God Himself, knowing His Word is- "God Breathed", inspired thru people from God by the Holy Spirit.

God declared He spoke these Words. Christ spoke God's Word in His teachings. He also declared the "Comforter"- Holy Spirit, would come to lead us to all Truths. Thus, to question what God spoke thru these inspired and Holy Spirit led people, is to question God and His Word directly. If a true child of God, you don't do that. Particularly in changing the wording or meaning as you had.

I know your asking if someone else could've killed Able. Absolutely not. As Christ declared, if it were so, I would have told you, so too would God have. So no, there is no other possibility than what God declared. Understand my friend?

THE END!! God Bless!!


Oh man, I think you didn't even get what I am asking... forget it.
I am not challenging God.


Posted by: Christian Commando

My boy, why would God point out Cain and Abel's dealings, if this were not the first example of violence, since sin had entered the world?

It's there, because it shows the exact first two to come to a point of violence and also includes the very first understanding of god's covenant with man for animal sacrifice and it's importance.

God tries to show us, Cain was an honorable man in the work he had done and had accomplished by God's Blessing. Yet, that was not what God needed for the covenant.

This is why this is the first and most important example of violence seen with man. No, there were no other murders at the same time I'm sure, or God would've provided us lessons of learning from those as well.

Remember the "tower of Babel" and how God declared all people were of one mind and tongue? At the beginning as such, people were too well in agreement of heart and mind. I suggest, Cain and Abel were an exception, for Cain had decided to be proud and offer his accomplishments, rather than what God required, animals, for the sacrifice.

Thus, your thoughts do not hold water for this suggestion.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

This explanation makes sense.
This is all I wanted to know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
My boy, why would God point out Cain and Abel's dealings, if this were not the first example of violence, since sin had entered the world?

It's there, because it shows the exact first two to come to a point of violence and also includes the very first understanding of god's covenant with man for animal sacrifice and it's importance.

God tries to show us, Cain was an honorable man in the work he had done and had accomplished by God's Blessing. Yet, that was not what God needed for the covenant.

This is why this is the first and most important example of violence seen with man. No, there were no other murders at the same time I'm sure, or God would've provided us lessons of learning from those as well.

Remember the "tower of Babel" and how God declared all people were of one mind and tongue? At the beginning as such, people were too well in agreement of heart and mind. I suggest, Cain and Abel were an exception, for Cain had decided to be proud and offer his accomplishments, rather than what God required, animals, for the sacrifice.

Thus, your thoughts do not hold water for this suggestion.

God Bless!!