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Liberal christians...

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Posted by: Frederik

This upsets me. I have been arguing with somebody on the internet the past days. He calls me fundamental for saying that sex before marriage is wrong. This makes me sick. This guy is so arrogant. He told me that I cannot even really have an opinion about this since I never had a real relationship with a woman, how silly is this?
This would mean I also cannot say drugs are bad cause I never tried them... oh boy...
This guy doesn't seem to get that it's all in the bible. In spite of this he came up with a study done by a christian psychologist who is specialized on "male sexuality" who wants to have found out that christian men which did not have sex before marriage more often have perverse tendencies than non-christian men. How silly is this? This would mean that all christian men which did not have sex before marriage are perverse...
Thinking that many of the younger christians might think like this makes me sick.
Their defense is always the same, they simply try to make the others look ridiculous and call them fundamental.


Posted by: MarkSentMe

To be a "liberal" is to be lukewarm. Jesus warns against being lukewarm, that He will spit us out of His mouth. One cannot be a liberal and be a Christian.

I just finished reading a great book called "Be Intolerant" by Ryan Dobson. I highly suggest it. The world tries to manipulate Christians with their psycho-babble on how we are bigots, judgemental, and closed-minded because we just will not stand for the "anything goes" policy set forth by the media and secular society.


Quote:
In spite of this he came up with a study done by a christian psychologist who is specialized on "male sexuality" who wants to have found out that christian men which did not have sex before marriage more often have perverse tendencies than non-christian men. How silly is this? This would mean that all christian men which did not have sex before marriage are perverse...


Exactly. One would have to look at each individual on a case by case study to find out WHY they do what they do. You don't have to be celibate to view internet porn. You don't have to be a virgin on your wedding night to have deviated thoughts and actions. Most pedophiles were sexually abused as children. Did this Christian psychologist mention that? Did his study account for innocence lost?

God gave us sex and intimacy to be shared by a married couple. I knew a guy in the Army who was a 27-year-old virgin. In the Army! He had put in his paperwork to go to seminary to become a chaplain. John had kept himself pure and spoke of that to those of us who were lost and in the world. He was not a pervert or a sexual deviate. He had set himself apart for God. Whish is just what God expects of us.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Frederik-

God shows in His Word, He is fundamental in His giving us guidlines to follow, yet liberal in giving us room to make mistakes and go on.

To be too strict one way is no better than being too strict the other. God shows a clear balance many do not understand. It's our job, to realize this in spending time in God's Word more, than going on personal beliefs.

Why take it personal? Some other person who isn't following God the way they think will be wrong too. It's from a religious form of doctrine taught. It's not of God when too extreme on way or the other.

Remember, the battle God declares, is not of the flesh, but of the spirit. There will be alot of people like that or extreme the other way. You can't avoid running into them from time to time.

It's good that the doctrine irritates you. good to know, God is working on you that way.

God Bless Bro in Christ!!


Posted by: Frederik

Hi!

I have the impression that especially among young christians it's somehow "in" to be liberal and to question the bible and not to take everything so serious and others again seem to be scared of taking a clear stand cause this might push these people away from christianity. I would not say that all these young christians are not real christians but I would say they are on a dangerous path cause when you do not take the bible seriously and when you also question the bible being infallible then you have a real problem. Somehow this is concerning cause when these christians grow up and become older and still have the same views then they might influence other younger christians and then this stuff goes on and on.
Being fundamental as a christian isn't bad at all. Those things in the bible which are clear must not be debated like for example sex before marriage but these people do not even accept that it's clear they say the bible is not clear at all. And then they argue about wether the bible only means that we shall only have 1 partner or wether it means that we have to marry before having sex etc...
Really, when I have to hear nonsense like this psychological study stuff it makes me sick. I cannot stand this. And now where I said it how it is I am a fundamentalist in their eyes....
I don't know but I feel like many of these younger christians have problems with the bible. They want to be christian but not really obey the bible and then they come up with God's grace and all this stuff to justify their life style. But even in the new covenant we cannot forget about the laws and do whatever we want.


Posted by: Sulten

Made me think of this scripture: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter. Isa. 5:20

I once heard a talk show host of many years ago, Phill Donahue say that certainly because there are so many people who do not live the Lord's law of chastity that the Lord will not hold them all accountable! I guess we see all the rationalization going on in the world.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Well, one big problem we see, is the disagreement over how god's word should be taken. One side claims fundamental- as in- to mean for what It says, while the other side sees some of them getting too strict, so they figure we shouldn't be so stiff necked and soften thier beliefs, so as to make God not so strict, some to the point they teach God allows anything.

Too extreme in fundamental thinking claims too many things missed out on or you aren't saved and reborn. the other extreme teaches as some religions, where you can go out and do anything basically and not have to worry about following God all that closely, if at all and still be acceptable to God.

With one extreme you are too picky. With the other, too lax.

Very good point Sulten!! God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Indeed. But what shall we do if other christians have other opinions? simply tolerate them? what if you're a pastor and somebody in your church thinks that permarital sex is okay what would you do?


Posted by: Christian Commando

I've confronted many a leader in love over such issues. I don't know wether God made an impression by the meetings, but at the least, I had done as God guided John the Baptist- I stood for the Truth of God and shared It so as not to be held responcible for not saying something when knew I should've.

You take the time to pull the Pastor to the side alone and speak to them kindly about Scriptures to prove a truth they are not following in thier teachings. Discuss it as adults in Christ with compassion and understanding. But stand firm on the Truth, with Scriptures to back It up.

Once you've done that, it is no more on your hands, but the other's hands to decide what to do.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

But what would you do if you're a pastor and in your church there is a couple which is not married and lives together. What would you do? Throw them out?


Posted by: Christian Commando

No, no, no my dear boy. Start up casual conversations with them over time. Find out if either is saved and reborn. Go according to this, wether to speak with them about such a thing.

You need to know, if they are True children of God first. As God declares, always seek the kingdom of Heaven first, then all other things shall be added unto you.

If one or both are, the Holy Spirit in at least the one, will bring about conviction of sin being done, in that Child. We are not to do this tho, specifically because they are in sin my boy.

We all are, no matter what. God declares, if break one Commandment, you've broken them all. No one is sin free in thier walk with God. that includes me too. We all are to some extent.

Look to save souls first. If are, then if God impresses you to speak with them about this sin, fine. If not, don't do it on your own. Satan will sense that and use the people you are talking to, to slap you back in the face with your own sinful nature.

After all, God declares we are to leave judgement to Him of others. Thus, on our own, we have no right to try and change others on our own, when we are equally sinful ourselves- (equally born in sin).

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Does this mean you would tolerate adultery in your church?
You'd talk to them and if they don't accept it this wouldn't have consequences?


Posted by: Christian Commando

One better way to speak of such things to people in the congregation you know are committing for sins, is to give sermons on your prasie and worship days they attend about such subjects.

I have done that in particular cases where called in about specific sinful problems known, but not how to approach it. So, I said to invite me as a guest speaker and will give a sermon about such subjects.

From there, it is up to them and God my boy. We are the vessels, but only that. You cannot force or try and force people into things. That is satan's way, not God's.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Hmmm...
what is a christian supposed to do who has christian friends which get into not so good things like drinking? Is he supposed to talk to them and if they do not accept it then he avoids them? Or what should one do in such a situation?


Posted by: angelofthelord

What would you do if your friend was in the act of fornication; homosexuality; or even performing sexual sin? You would talk to them about it to them showing them their error as to what the bible states about this (assuming they are christian) and then pray for them to convert.

What about the christian who says they are strong in the faith, obey God and HIS commandments and attend services regularly, who is an outstanding person in the community especially in his church community by participating in different christian organizations, and yet they live with a person of the opposite sex and not married?

Chris
angelofthelord


Posted by: Christian Commando

Recall what John the Baptist said of himself when spoke to Herod about his adultress marriage and affair with his brother's wife?

If John had not said anything to Herod about this situation, God would've held him accountable for not speaking out.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Yes, we shall say something.

But what do we do then? Imagine your best friend starts to be involved in sin what do you do if he doesn't repent? Do you avoid him? What shall we do in such a situation? Befriend the person? Or avoid the person after having pointed out the sin which she is involved in? I mean Jesus hung around with sinners. But the bible also says that we shall avoid bad company. How does this fit together? Bad company yes or no?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Simple my friend- God declares to pray without ceasing- continue to pray for the person and keep contact with them, that the Holy Spirit in you may influence them to change thier ways as time and conversations go on. Witness and being a witness.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

So you mean you should avoid them but still keep praying for them?


Posted by: Christian Commando

I was expecting that responce, as i hadn't covered that part here yet.

Frederik, it depends. Is the sin they are involved with, a weak spot for you too? If so, yes, avoid contact with them and just keep praying. sometimes that most benficial for both of you.

If not, I've kept contact with those whose sin I'm not tempted by myself, in order God might be a witness to them, by His Holy Spirit thru me. But, I'll never unnecessarily allow myself to be tempted by staying in contact with someone who shares the same weaker point of sinful attraction I do.

If God should strengthen the one, it could inadvertantly break that down, trying to help a weaker brother or sister with the same problem, by getting to close to them trying to help.

Speaking with them and exchanges of info and advice is fine, so long as direct contact is avoided, where necessary to avoid the falling of the stronger one.

Take drinking for example- I'm a recovered alcoholic. I say recovered, as I can walk into bars and minister, being repulsed by the smell of liquor, thus I would never ever take a drink again.

But, I only allow myself to do this, as I'm repulsed by it, (I hate it), now. Otherwise, I'd be drawn back into it like the others, which is of no benefit to my trying to help others with that problem.

Understand?

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Yes.

Does this mean that I as a christian could or should still hang out with other christians, which sin while I'm around, as long as it doesn't tempt me to sin?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Yes- Fact is, God could very well use you, as an example to them, for your not getting involved, to help them be able to stop thier own sinning of that nature.

God Bless!!

BTW- Be sure tho, not to push thier sinful actions on them as wrong, unless God leads you to bring it up. After all, all people are equally born in sin and God declares we must first remove the beam from our own eye, before trying to remove the speck from another's.


Posted by: Frederik

does this mean if I see somebody does something wrong I shall not tell him that it's wrong unless God himself tells me to?


Posted by: Christian Commando

My friend, do it in a kind, loving way, that is not threatening to them. For, it is not good to boldly just blurt out about a sin they are doing, knowing they could say something about sin you may be doing.

This is why, it is best to let God lead you to say something, as God led John the Baptist to, to King Herod.

God bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Agreed.