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Why is it so important to believe that God resurrected Jesus?

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Posted by: Frederik

I mean the bible mentions this in Romans that you have to believe God resurrected him. But isn't this logical? I mean when you believe Jesus is God then actually this already includes that he is alive cause how can God be dead?
Know what I mean?

Or for example when christians say that Jesus lives then non-believers might think: How can this be that he still lives?
Why not directly say: Jesus is God. Isn't this much clearer?

If you only say he lives then people which don't know very much about him might not even understand what this means. They might think: Okay, Jesus lives. Cool. What does this have to do with me?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Yea, haha, that would be clearer and is what most of us say. The problem?

People ask, if Jesus is God, then how could He have died in the first place? Thats where God's Word comes in, from Adam and Eve's time for sinning, to explaining how and why Jesus came to earth as a man and was sacrificed for our sins.

Who Scriptures say Jesus Christ is, what He did and the result of this action. This is why, so many of the cult religions of today and past centuries, have claimed the originators of them, were "christ in carnate". Thier problem is tho, they cannot explain thier false christ's never being raised from the dead, as the Jesus of the True Trinity had been.

The fact Jesus died for our sins, but then was ressurrected means, God, thru Jesus Christ living again. overcame death by sin. Really, you should understand this yourself, for the number of times, particularly recently, it has been brought up.

God Bless!!


Posted by: GODS Grace

Hello Brian,
I don't have a christian eductation as you and others at this site. This morning I was reading about taking "captivity captive". Is this verse referring to Jesus taking the keys from hell or Him being greater than death?
Blessings!!!...Grace





Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Yea, haha, that would be clearer and is what most of us say. The problem?

People ask, if Jesus is God, then how could He have died in the first place? Thats where God's Word comes in, from Adam and Eve's time for sinning, to explaining how and why Jesus came to earth as a man and was sacrificed for our sins.

Who Scriptures say Jesus Christ is, what He did and the result of this action. This is why, so many of the cult religions of today and past centuries, have claimed the originators of them, were "christ in carnate". Thier problem is tho, they cannot explain thier false christ's never being raised from the dead, as the Jesus of the True Trinity had been.

The fact Jesus died for our sins, but then was ressurrected means, God, thru Jesus Christ living again. overcame death by sin. Really, you should understand this yourself, for the number of times, particularly recently, it has been brought up.

God Bless!!



Posted by: Frederik

* cc

Somehow when people talk about how Jesus conquered death it sounds like it was a hard fight or something like that. But what is death compared to God? I think it has not been hard for Jesus to conquer death the same way it will not be hard for God to deal with Satan in the end cause Satan has no chance.


Posted by: Christian Commando

God's Grace-

Yep, thats part of it. It was Jesus paying the price to start with, then ending in taking the keys of death and Hell from satan, for those who belong to God, so earlier saints to leave Paradise and go to be with God in person and us-"tobe absent from the body, present with the Lord".

Frederik-

If were to watch the movie- "The Passion of the Christ" original version, you'd have a better idea of the hurt,pain, anguish and disfigurement Jesu bore to His body and spirit when He took on all the sins of the world and man, since the beginning of this physical world till Jesus returns.

It wasn't so much of a fight, as it was a struggle to endure the suffering all that caused. Only God, in human flesh as Christ, could've endured such pain and torment. No normal human would've lasted 1 second with that much.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Say God's Grace- one other point I forgot to mention.

In Jesus' taking all that sin, then dieing and going to Hell, only to be ressurrected and returned to Heaven, this also took all power of satan over man and this world away from him. It gave God all rights back to taking care of things.

Before Christ came and did what He accomplished, people who belonged to God had to stay seperated from god as yet. Thier sins had not been paid for (as it were).

Check out the story of Christ about the Richman and Lazarus. You'll find, when the richman died, he went to Hell right away. When looked up, he saw angels carry Lazarus into the bosom of Abraham. Yet Abraham was not with God in that place, but in Paradise. Look closely at the descriptions Abraham gives in responce to the richman about where they are and how it is designed.

This is what is part of that Scripture you asked about. God Bless!!

BTW- You are quite Blessed in knowledge and Wisdom of God's Word as evidenced already!!


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando

Frederik-

If were to watch the movie- "The Passion of the Christ" original version, you'd have a better idea of the hurt,pain, anguish and disfigurement Jesu bore to His body and spirit when He took on all the sins of the world and man, since the beginning of this physical world till Jesus returns.

It wasn't so much of a fight, as it was a struggle to endure the suffering all that caused. Only God, in human flesh as Christ, could've endured such pain and torment. No normal human would've lasted 1 second with that much.


This is right but it wasn't a fight in the sense that Jesus might have thought: "Wow, let's see if I'll really win the fight against death cause death is a strong guy..."
I mean it was clear that Jesus would win, right?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Quite correct my boy.

Fact is, Jesus being- "God in the flesh", had also, as God declared in Old Test times, had His part in creation. thus, God, as a Trinity, is Omnipotent"- all powerful. thus there was no question this would be- (Jesus would win).

Another we can use is, since early Old Test times, God started prophecying thru people of this coming event any way.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

When the bible speaks about death does it mean Sheol, where the dead were stored? I mean a dead man went down there. So being dead actually means being in the Sheol, right? Cause this is where the dead are.
Being dead doesn't mean that you stop to exist it simply means that you went down there, right?

Another interesting question would be wether death is a person. Is death something like a demon who works for Satan?

Or is death rather metaphorical?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Frederik-

Sheol is the name of Hell for one language- Hebrew- Greek, Hades is the other name for it.

One is of Hebrew and it refers to a place having two compartments- 1- of torment,2- of comfort.

When a person physically dies, God declares man has a spirit that exists in the spirit realm, attached to the physical body while that body lives.

When a body dies, thier spirit-soul I call it- Gen. 1:27-28- God's act of "creation" of man, either goes to live forever in Hell in torment, or in Old Test days, to the "comfort compartment" known as Paradise- Jesus declares this to one thief next to Him on the cross.

Since Jesus Christ died and spent 3 days and nites in Hell- Paul declared Jesus went to the "bowels of the earth" for that time, He prepared them in Paradise for the moment He- Jesus, would be raised from the dead, so those in Paradise would go to be with God after that.

This is why there are two different names given to Hell, as now, people who die unsaved, thier spirits still go to Hell now. Saved ones- "to be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord". They go to Heaven now.

Death could never be a person. God declares there are two kinds of death- physical death and spiritual death for man.

Physical death relates to a physical body ceasing to function, so that it decays and returns to dust, whence it was originally made.

Spiritual death means to be eternally seperated from God in torment forever. Stop with this metaphorical nonsense. Death is a "state of being" or simpler said, a place put in of torment and pain, forever, for a spirit.

Eternal life is considered by God as eternal time spent with Him in joy, peace, love, etc.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

But if Jesus went to hell then how could he say to the sinner on the cross that he would be with him in paradise today?
And did Jesus not command his spirit into the hands of the Father?
Does this mean he commanded it but it did not work or what?
There is much controversy about wether Jesus went to hell. Do you say that Jesus did not pay the full price on the cross and that he also had to go to hell to redeem us?
Many christians will say that this is heresy.


Posted by: Christian Commando

My boy-

Remember, part of Hell was the comfort side- Paradise in Old Test times. Animal sacrifice did not remove sin, but only covered it. Thus Jesus did in reality go to Hell, but Paradise, the comfort side, as described by Abraham in Jesus' story of the richman and Lazarus.

Yes, Christ declares- "into thy hands, I commend My Soul". In other words, Jesus allowed God to send His spirit to Hell- (Paradise side), to pay the rest of the price- 3 days and nites there.

Absolutely my friend. Do you realize God speaks of two deaths in his Word? 1- The physical death, where our bodies go to the earth. 2- spiritual death- eternal seperation from God.

Jesus had to physically die on the cross, in order to cover that death by sin. Then, His Spirit had to descend into Hell to pay the price for our spiritual death as well.

Well, if think it's heresy, then they are taking Words God spoke and throwing them out, rejecting them. They are essentially the heretics, not those who believe in both deaths died.

Not to mention the 4 Gospels clearly speak of christ's descending to Hell and His Glorified ressurrection and appearances after that before rising to Heaven.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Okay. But there are christians which say Jesus was tortured in hell by Satan! To pay the full price!


When you say Jesus went to the paradise part then we have a problem. What about psalm 88 which speaks of Jesus? It sounds like he suffered down there.
Derek Prince once spoke about this he said that this speaks of Jesus and how he suffered in Sheol.


Psa 88:1 O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee:
Psa 88:2 Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry;
Psa 88:3 For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave.
Psa 88:4 I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength:
Psa 88:5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
Psa 88:6 Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps.
Psa 88:7 Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.
Psa 88:8 Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
Psa 88:9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Psa 88:12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
Psa 88:13 But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee.
Psa 88:14 LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me?
Psa 88:15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted.
Psa 88:16 Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off.
Psa 88:17 They came round about me daily like water; they compassed me about together.
Psa 88:18 Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.


Posted by: Christian Commando

You see, this is where satan has you going around in circles.

You are not paying attention to the fact Yes, Jesus Christ did suffer with taking on all that sin, but no, He did not go to the torment side for telling that thief next to him on the cross- "Today, thou shalt be with me in Paradise".

As for satan tormenting christ- a lie of satan. Impossible. God declares from the start speaking of Hell, He designed it only for satan and his demons first, but that it is for torment. B- you hadn't read the Scriptures where the "legion" begged christ not to send them into the "Abyss"- translated means bottomless pit- Hell.

C- You did not remember the Scripture where when Jesus returns, satan is bound for that 1,000 years and cast into the bottomless pit. And D- The fact God shows where satan and his demons are cast into the "Lake of Fire" last and eternal place of torment, where even death and Hell are cast.

So, Hell was originally for tormenting satan and his demons first, but as God declares, enlarged to take on lost souls of men as well after sin entered. Be sure, if Hell was for satan's pleasure, the legion would've asked to be sent there, not begged not to be.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Um... today there are various christians which say they saw hell and Satan and his demons are torturing people in hell and they enjoy this. Does this mean these christians are lying? I even read a book about this from a woman which claimed Jesus took her to hell. She said Satan enjoys being down there, he forces the people to pray to him and if they refuse he tortures them even more.


And what about this?

Psa 88:9 Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee.
Psa 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
Psa 88:11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
Psa 88:12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

If Jesus was on the good side then why do these verses speak of suffering? If he was in paradise he didn't suffer.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Question 1- I know of these christians. I've taught Bible Studies and classes from Scripture showing these people are not lying, just simply decieved.

Remember, God declares satan can masquerade as an angel of light. Plus much more, to try and decieve even the very elect- (True children of God). Which satan does at times.

Question 2- God declares satan and his followers are already "bound in chains of darkness" -bound by thier sin. But as noted, demons have begged Christ not to send them to Hell. So that is answered. Hell is not a playhouse or base for them to live in.

Question 3- Those Scriptures depict, if remember my earlier explainations, Jesus was suffering from the weight of all that sin of the world and all men. A man's spirit cannot handle the pain and anguish from that much.

Remember- christ even asked, for our clarification to realize He was being seperated from god for a short time- "Why hast thou forsaken Me"? In other words- seperated yourself from Me to go to this place?

No- Paradise was not a place of torment, but the pain and hurt of all that sin Jesu had to endure, stayed with Him, even in Paradise, thru the seperation He dealt with as well, from the Father- God.

God bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

What sense does it make for Satan to deceive christians into thinking that he and his demons torture people in hell? Where is the relevance?

And when you say a human spirit could not handle this then what do you mean? A spirit cannot die, so what would have happened to a human spirit if he had to experience what Jesus had to experience? Did Jesus have to experience everything which we would have experienced in hell? Was it 1:1 meaning that if our suffering for example had the number 1000 on a scale then Jesus also had to experience the same amount of suffering?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Question 1- Deceptive descriptions of Hell. A- It gives satan a false appearance of having some control and or power. Whjich God clearly declares he does not as an angelic creation. Satan has abilities, but pride in them, convinces satan to try and dethrone God and His Angels so satan and his fallen ones can take over.

Question 2- Why can't a human spirit handle what Christ had to endure? Read the story of Moses wanting to see God in person on that mountain.

God hid Moses' eyes from seeing the front of God, to avoid the Power of God's Glory eminating from His Face from destroying Moses, a born in sin man.

It's not identical, but similar for sin. The pain, hurt, anguish and disfigurment caused by all that sin, by virtue of the power thru it's destructive way, would destroy a human spirit on that level of intensity, as a human spirit is falable, not perfect, and not "omnipotent"- all powerful, as Jesus Christ's Spirit was being "God".

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Destroy? What do you mean with destroy? How can an undying spirit be destroyed?


Posted by: Christian Commando

You either haven't read pertinant Scriptures or forgotten them my friend, where God declares for one- Fear not those who can only destroy the body- satan and demons, but fear Him- God, who can destroy both body and soul in Hell.

The word in this instance- destroy, is the exact word God uses in that Scripture. And... you forget other Scriptures such as God is the creator of all things- "creator" means bringing into existance, something from nothing.

Satan nor his demons have any power to do such. But... for God who can bring something into existance from nothingness, do you not understand He'd have the power to destroy it as well back to nothingness? Of course He would. Think my friend.

God bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Are you saying that those in hell will be destroyed and then end to exist?
This cannot be. This would be the annihilation theory that those which go to hell are simply erased and then stop to exist.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Frederik- come on, start using your brain my friend. What does God say- He is talking to His Children about fear. God didn't say He will do that, only that He does have the Power to do it, where satan and his demons do not.

Remember as well my friend, God speaks of eternal death as eternal seperation from Him in torment forever.

What God was trying to show in the above verse was, God is all powerful, where satan and his demons are created beings having no real power.

God bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
Frederik- come on, start using your brain my friend.





Posted by: Christian Commando

Forgive me for that remark, but do get tired of questions asked when answers are plainly written in God's Word for these things.

You are a good young man, but just need to apply yourself to reading and just taking God's Word for what It says, than asking so many people what It means. It's more clear than you make it out to be.

God declares we all have to spend enough time reading and studying His word in order to learn It and gain understanding of It. I've seen more people get saved and reborn by thier saying how confused they are from hearing so many religious views of It.

Yet, when they hear the Word shared and given for Truth as literally written, they have then realized that is the way It was mean't- line upon line, precept upon precept.

Again, forgive me for that remark. I was wrong and spoke wrongly.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

No problem.

Maybe I listened to too many sermons from too many different people and this variety of opinions wasn't good for me.
I mean you don't get stability this way if someone tells you something and somebody else tells you something else.


Posted by: Christian Commando

Dear boy- You will run into this your whole life tho, on all subjects. My point when got irritated was, you have God's Word right with you for Truth. Very seldom do we have to ask what It means, because It says what It means strait out so much.

I agree, some Scriptures are confusing, but over the years, God has shown me techniques in reading His Word, which I have shared here, to help understand less obvious understandings.

Mainly what I learned is when hit on a particular Scripture of confusion, then going back several Scriptures, and sometimes needing to go past the one severl more.

Then, if when reading them you pay attention to the event going on, people involved or if need be, go back more yet to see how it was brought to that point, you can then understand what the meaning is.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

But the different bible versions are all a bit different. When I compare the KJV for example to a german bible then there's already a huge difference.
In Isaiah 53:5 and 53:10 the word disease is used in the german bible. When I read this and take the bible seriously then I will think that it's about diseases. But the KJV is totally different when I compare the verses. This sucks. This means you can always ask yourself is this translation correct or might it be misleading?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Ok... that makes more sense now for so much confusion on your part. What I have done in most sever cases of dealing with people of other languages is, I get a KJV that speaks the same as mine but in thier language, and also a concordance that goes with that version, in thier native language.

Sometimes this is a challenge, but God has always come thru for this. But, let me clue you in on some other insight-

I have 5-6 Bibles I keep around. 1- 1611 KJV-2-A 1950s KJV-3- NIV from the early 1990s- 4- A Bible Study Bible from Bible School- 5- Huge "Family Bible" plus one or two extras. But then also have a Bible Dictionary and a Concordance to go along with the KJV's which I gre up with.

But, there are even changes in the 1950's one that were not in the 1611 version. This is why I bought the older one then, to get a closer more accurate version of Scripture. Plus, when necessary, I go into the Jewish Encyclopedias of the Bible called- Judaica to get the most accurate Hebrew and Greek translations of words, phrases, Scripture and more.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

Judaica?
Is this a book?
This is interesting. I always hear christians say "in original hebrew this word is used which means..." and then I always ask myself where do they know this? Do they speak hebrew? How or where can you look up which words were used in the hebrew version? Let's say I wanna know which word was used instead of disease in Isaiah 53:5 in the hebrew version is this possible?


Posted by: Christian Commando

Ok Frederik lets start again. Take your Bible and lay it open to the Scripture you want to look up. Take the word or words each and look up the Scriptural reference in the Jewish encyclopedia- (called Judaica). When you find it, it will provide the original Hebrew word used from Old Test or Greek word used from New Test and will give you the meaning and in most cases, an explaination of the root word it came from etc.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Frederik

And where do I get such a judaica? Do I have to buy it for much money or what? Or is it also on the net?


Posted by: Christian Commando

The "Judaica Encyclopedias" are a Jewish Encyclopedia set made only for the Bible or ancient Scriptures as they put it. You can go to alot of book stores and order them or some Christian ones have them, but don't know the cost of them now.

Mine are 10 years old or better already since I've owned them. You can try online, but don't know the route to find them. I bought mine thru ordering from a christian book store.

God Bless!!