Prayer Board Requests - Christians extremists

Pages: 1

Christians extremists
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Frederik

I saw something on tv about a christian movement which is active in Germany and also the USA. This was rather disturbing. They focus only on young people. Parents reported that after coming back from these courses their children only wanted to fast and did not obey their parents when they told them to eat and that the parents were totally clueless how to deal with this situation. Is this normal? This sounds very strange to me. This sounds like a sect to me. I also don't know wether this is a good thing. Young teenagers are pretty much open to everything. I don't know if indocrinating young people at this age to become christians is good or not. They may easily be set on fire and scream Jesus and experience all kinds of things but maybe a few months or years later they find something new.
I think that this movement somehow exploits the fact that young people are without orientation and they turn them into little christian extremists. Would you send you child to such an event?
They also showed scenes were the teenagers were trained to be rhetorically fit to be able to give the correct answers to all kinds of questions for example why sex before marriage is bad and so on. This looked like brainwashing to me. I don't know if a person at such a young age should be exposed to something like this.

Posted by: akabezalel

Fredrik, you have called Christians many names that were not flattering.

You have made blanket statements about those of us who speak in tongues and move in the prophetic that are biased or completely untrue.

You have taken honest Biblical answers to your endless questions and twisted them into something unrecognizable while refusing to read in the Bible for yourself to see if they speak the truth to you.

BUT this is perhaps the most irresponsible post you have EVER placed on the board.

Who do you think can get kids through their teen years intact and safe except God?

How do you think they are taught at school except by indoctrination of the world's faulty way of thinking.

Where do you get off at assuming from ONE biased report that this is a 'bad' experience for these kids?

Who Else is caring enough about them to teach them the ways of God? Certainly not you.

How DARE you assume that God cannot and will not keep these kids!

You need to stop jumping to half formed opinions from biased and irresponsible articles.

You need to take a deep long look at yourself and see how lost you truly are.

Your signature says you want to be red hot for Jesus yet you degrade and gossip against anything that the Holy Spirit is saying or doing around you even when it does not concern you personally.

You need to change your signature because you do not want the fire of God anywhere near you.

Go ahead and report me to JG for this post, I am tired of allowing you free run with your spirit of anti-christ, gossip and suspisions.

Posted by: Frederik

Quote:

Originally Posted by akabezalel

Go ahead and report me to JG for this post, I am tired of allowing you free run with your spirit of anti-christ, gossip and suspisions.

Anything else you want to say to me?
I know that for some reasons you don't like me so this isn't surprising to me.

My whole post was referring to this organisation or whatever you want to call it which clearly seemed like a sect to me. I wouldn't send my child somewhere where it's taught how to think and what to reply to which question etc. When a child comes back from such an event and doesn't want to eat anymore then this is clearly a sign that something is going wrong. Do you think that everything which has "christian" in it's name is necessarily also good?

There are also christians which I wouldn't want to deal with cause they are totally beyond good and evil.

Are you saying that going to a christian sect is good for teenagers?

Posted by: JG

My Dear Frederick:

Let us see what the Word of God has to say
We can not go by emotions or feelings.
We can only go by the wisdom the Lord has shown us.

1: DEU 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

This is not a suggestion this is a commandment.
In the Old Testament if the child did not obey they were stoned.
That is why most Jewish children are so good.

2: PRO 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

3: DEU 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: DEU 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

So you see my friend Children must learn to honour even bad parents.
God did not say honour just good parents he said learn to honour your parents.

I would rather see children being taught to learn about the things of God from the day they are born than the things of this world.

Posted by: Frederik

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

I would rather see children being taught to learn about the things of God from the day they are born than the things of this world.

I agree with you.

But like I said not everything which looks christian also has to be good.I think when teenagers are so acted upon that they do not want to eat anymore and cause their parents to despair then this is clearly a reason to be concerned. If my child came back from such a schooling and refused to eat against my will then I would become really angry and think to myself what was going on there. And you cannot simply go by the name or make up of something and simply say "It's christian this means it has to be good."
There are also christians which are overdoing it. I have read books from christians which were really scary cause they were so strict and thought that everything which does not build up the kingdom of God is bad!

One author said that going to the cinema makes your prayers less effective!

It simply has to be in balance otherwise it becomes unhealthy. You can also seriously harm a person by indoctrinating it with such things and just because it looks christian doesn't change anything.

Posted by: JG

There is a time and purpose for every season.

If the Lord allows I will wait for your answer after you have been married for almost 40 years like me.
If the Lord allows I will wait till you have raised your children

Posted by: walkin2e

Amen Brother JG....You have said it well. I love that picture you posted...Makes me want to be the one driving that old Farmall!

Be blessed in Jesus.

Irvin

Posted by: Frederik

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG

There is a time and purpose for every season.

If the Lord allows I will wait for your answer after you have been married for almost 40 years like me.
If the Lord allows I will wait till you have raised your children

Okay.

Posted by: JeriRose12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: (Luke 12:51)

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 4:29)

So, you see, if God was telling these children to fast, they had every right to fast and not do as their parents asked. Whenever our parents want us to disobey God, we must do what God wants.

You also said that they were being taught to say that sex before marriage is wrong. Well, it's about time this teaching was put back in the church! The amount of couples living in sin and saying they are Christians is apalling!

What is an extremist, anyway? This idea of being moderate (or in balance) sounds more like "luke warm" to me, and you know what happens to luke warm folks. I believe it is better to error on the side of trying to get away from the ideas of this world by getting as close to God as possible and getting away from the world's media than to drift into the vain philosiphies flying at us out of Hollywood. The vain philosiphies of men can lull us to sleep.

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. (Colossians 2:8)

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2005

P.S. Why are most of your questions raised as a result of some article you read or some TV show you saw or some other such source yet not from the Bible? You say you don't have time to read the Bible, but you have plenty of time to watch TV or surf the net or read or wherever you are getting this stuff.

Posted by: JeriRose12

Speaking of Christian extremists.... Paul, the Apostle, said:

2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:2).

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2005

Posted by: Frederik

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeriRose12

You say you don't have time to read the Bible,

Where did I say that?

Quote:

So, you see, if God was telling these children to fast, they had every right to fast and not do as their parents asked.

Yes.
But not if these young people were simply indoctrinated to fast, which might have been the case. When parents and even church pastors become concerned then this is a bit alarming, isn't it? But maybe other christians would see this totally different, I can only speak for myself and I did not like this documentary. Just because you're christian doesn't mean you have to be weird. I simply cannot stand this weirdness. It's these typical Ned Flanders type of christians which I can't deal with. But I'm glad that not all christians are the same.

Posted by: MarkSentMe

Our church teaches about fasting. It's not an extremist view, but simply stated that if there is something burdening your heart, spend the day fasting and in prayer.
I know one of the teens in our youth group who did that when concerned about a particualr situation. and it helped her to focus on God's Word.
If you haven't seen the average American teen lately, they can more than afford to miss a meal or 2. And spending the day in prayer and worship to our Lord and Saviour as opposed to spending the day on internet chat or watching MTV is not a bad thing!

Last spring my daughter's youth group went to an overnight concert/ evangelism weekend called Aquire the Fire. The teens spent the night in Nashville, stayed up late sharing God's Word, enjoying praise music, and having fellowship. Girl came home ON FIRE!! Many teens gave their lives to Jesus!

There is a lot of bunk out there disguising itself as "Christian". This is where discernment comes in.

Posted by: jms

Firstly, I would like to wish our dear Pastor Jerry and family and every member of this web a HAPPY NEW YEAR.
I believe there is an unfortunate misunderstanding between Fredrick and the rest about the issue, and I think I know his concern. When my daughter was a liitle girl, she used to join her school group for camping. The leader of the group was the teacher who taught Religion as a subject in their school. After the outing, my daughter seemed to become detached from the family, fasted and used to cry by herself.Just like Fredrick, I became very worried and concern. I wondered what the teacher could have taught the kids. I wondered if she had the maturity and wisdom to teach the kids not only to love God but also their parents. If she didn't, there was a real possibility that , unwittingly, she was sowing a dislike/or disrespect for parents among the kids. The fact is, some parents are not religious, or some are just "no good people". Without proper teaching, kids can dislike such parents, and that will be very unfortunate. I have a lot of Pastors friends. I begged them that, should they lead children's congregation, they must ask the kids to:- 1. Pray Thank to god for their parents; 2. In the case of parents who are off the mark "Teach the parents about the love of God". Imagine how sweet if a little one says to her wife-abusing father >" Daddy, God loves me and loves you too".
To me, Fredrick himself is one whole subject. To those with unshakeable faith, Frederick is an ASSURANCE, and to the others he is a real challange. I will not call him anti-Christ. One thing is certain, Fredrick's mind never stop pondering, asking, enquiring and quite very likely he will be lead to the TRUTH, if he isn't there already.

Posted by: Frederik

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms

When my daughter was a liitle girl, she used to join her school group for camping. The leader of the group was the teacher who taught Religion as a subject in their school. After the outing, my daughter seemed to become detached from the family, fasted and used to cry by herself.Just like Fredrick, I became very worried and concern. I wondered what the teacher could have taught the kids.

Yes, this is kinda like what I mean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms

To me, Fredrick himself is one whole subject.

Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms

To those with unshakeable faith, Frederick is an ASSURANCE, and to the others he is a real challange.

I don't want to challenge anyone in his faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms

I will not call him anti-Christ.

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms

One thing is certain, Fredrick's mind never stop pondering, asking, enquiring.....

Unfortunately,yes.

Posted by: JeriRose12

Frederik says he is a Christian and wants to be red hot for Jesus. I just come in these threads to encourage him to seek God. A Christian is a follower of Christ, and I would like to see Frederik getting to know Christ (not the answer to all these questions). When he knows Christ, he will know how to follow Him. Gaining knowledge will not make him closer to God, and as Christians, we are to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness....not the answer to a bunch of questions. The foolish things confound the wise, therefore, why do we bother relying on our intellect? God does call many wise, the Bible says. This need to know is a stumbling block to Frederik. Without faith it is impossible to please God. His doubt laden questions are the opposite of the faith God wants us to have. My soul objective is to get Frederik onto the path of seeking God, the most exciting path EVER.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006

Posted by: Frederik

I do seek God!
But not with very much success.
You think it's so easy and simply telling me "Seek God, seek God" will solve everything. It doesn't. Can you play guitar? Imagine you can't play guitar and sit there and are frustrated cause you don't improve and don't know what to do to become better and then I come along and tell you: "Just play, just play."

Posted by: jms

Pls allow me to say the following:-

1. Jeri has a lot of goodwill in his words for Frederik. May be Frederik is seen as being swept away by a swelling river. Those with the goodwill are telling him not to be preoccupied with questions but just struggle towards the river's bank and grab hold of the bolders. He should do this fast before the fast flowing current drags him down. This may be a poor illustration for Jeri's goodwill.

2. Frederik, although we live in different parts of the world, your questions make me feel "familiar" with you, becuase , believe it or not, I ask a lot of questions very similar to yours. I know yoU KNOW THAT GOD EXISTS, THAT YOU ARE EARNESTLY SEEKING HIM AND WANT TO KNOW HIM, otherwise you won't want to waste too much time posting out all those questions. May be you actually want people to be saved. As such, I think you should take stock of the fact that, your questions can work "either way" for those who are struggling to know god. In fear of this, I am keeping most of my questions to myself. For the "unsaved" like me who are struggling to know God, asking questions quite endlessly in our zeal to know Him, may become counter productive. I would be very happy to be your sincere friend. God bless.

Posted by: Frederik

Hi jms!

Why do you think you are unsaved? Have you not accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior and asked him into your life? If not then do it.

Or is there something holding you back? You cannot define being saved over knowing God. Somebody who just accepts Jesus as his savior also doesn't know as much as somebody who has been a christian for many years. And besides this you can have been a christian for many years and still not have what others have, look at me. I don't know why for some it seems to be so easy. Some get converted and directly experience stuff with God, while for others everything is so dry and powerless and boring. I ask myself why I belong to the second category. And those people which belong to the first category talk like it's so easy and they do not even seem to be able to understand that there are people which simply don't make it. It's like they can't understand that there are people which do not directly get into God's presence and are beamed up to the third heaven within 60 seconds of praying. All this stuff is totally unknown to me, almost weird. I cannot comprehend it cause I don't know it and it angers me when I hear sermons where the pastor makes it look sooo easy to hear God and to experience things. He is speaking from his perspective. When I am good at playing football then I will say: "Football is easy." Somebody else who is not good at all will say: "Football is very hard."
This really angers me and it's very frustrating. I listen to so many sermons and the pastors are all so abstract. "You have to get deep with God, deeeeeeep." Oh really?

But they never say HOW. They never say how somebody like me could start >getting deep with God<. Why can't thex explain it like they're explaining it to a 4 year old? I want to know how to get deep with God. But they never give advice which help me. They only provide abstract phrases. This is like saying to somebody who sucks at something: "You simply have to get better! Get better son! Improve!"
Wow, great advice. I bet this will help the person.

I think these people don't even know how people like me feel. I have sat in church and felt like the last christian cause everybody seemed to feel or experience anything and I felt nothing. I felt absolutely miserable as if God had left me as if it is absolutely impossible to experience God, as if this was something which I can never have. This is not a nice feeling. You can really get paranoid over this and think that it'll never change. And I have really tried a lot of things. Gone to conferences, gone to various pastors to get hands laid on hoping that something would happen and that everything would be fine but nothing happened. When you have experienced a number of disappointments then you become bitter and demotivated and think "what if it never changes? what if nobody can help me?"

It's so easy to make judgements over the internet and to make it look like I am not hungry, like I don't seek God or desire God. If it wasn't such a long distance I would say "Okay, come over to me and show me how to pray for hours! I wanna see it! I want to know how you do it."
This would at least be productive.

Posted by: JeriRose12

Frederik, I congratulate you for telling jms to get saved.

I have tried to explain it to you every way I know, but no matter WHAT I say, you come back and say it doesn't work for you. Seeking God is as easy as saying "I love you, Jesus." How's that for four year old language? It's not complicated or confusing. It's reading your Bible. Is that too difficult for you? It's talking to God (praying as adults call it). Just sit down and share what happened in your life today with God. It's simple. It's singing a praise song to Jesus, any song you like just sing it to Him. It's saying, "Thank You, Jesus, that I'm saved." It's turning on a favorite TV preacher. It's putting on a praise & worhsip CD. This is all stuff that any four year old could do. Why do you keep saying I make it hard? It's laying your head on your pillow at night and saying, "Good night, Jesus." It's waking up in the morning saying, "Good morning, Lord." It's getting dressed asking, "How can I tell others about you today, God?" It's heading out to work or school saying, "Go with me, Lord. I need you today." It's asking for God's help whenever you hear bad news. It's thanking God whenever you hear good news. It's going to church to worship with other believers. It's.... so simple a four year old can do it.

I admit I don't feel God that much any more, and I don't seek Him as strong as I used to. I still know it's the right thing to do, though. I would tell myself the same as I tell you, even though I don't seem to feel Him right now. He seems distant for the most part. I know he's there. At least my brain tells me He is. But I don't feel that touch from Him that I used to talk about so much. It's been about six months since I felt Him in a major way. But my relationship with God is not based on feelings. I need to give Him TIME reagardless of whether I feel anything during that time. I seek God, not the feelings. I hope this last paragraph didn't go over your head. I tried to say it as simply as possible.

Anyway, I am praying for you, and I just noticed what you said: "--directly experience stuff with God." I didn't. It was at least ten years before I started to experience God's Presence. I had prayed the salvation prayer many years before I ever felt God's Presence or went "deep" with Him. And I do not get into His Presence in 60 seconds these days. In fact, I don't really feel Him much at all. But I STILL pray. Not feeling His Presence immediately or even after an hour does not let me off praying.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006

Posted by: Frederik

Hi Jeri!

I talk to God but only talking about the same things every day becomes boring. If you do something without seeing results you become frustrated. I don't talk to God for the sake of talking. When you seek God and nothing happens then isn't it normal to become frustrated?
And why did it take 10 years for you to experience something? What changed after 10 years? Did you not seek God during those 10 years?
There are people which get converted and they hear God and everything simply works. They pray to speak in tongues and then they speak in tongues and everything is so easy. Why isn't it so easy for everybody? Is it because some are too sceptical? But people are simply different. I didn't choose to be the way I am. For me it has never been different. I have never experienced God or heard him and when it has never been different then it becomes really hard to imagine that it might ever change. And when this thinking adds up with all the disappointments then you get real barriers in your mind. If you failed at something various times then it becomes harder to imagine that it might every be different with every time you fail. This is how I feel. I wouldn't go to conferences anymore, hoping that something might happen. I've tried it and nothing happened and I won't try it again. I couldn't even get faith for such stuff anymore. The first time you try something you are optimistic but the second time you're not as optimistic anymore and the third time you don't really believe that anything might happen. It's really funny. After coming back from one conference and being disappointed I was told: You expected too much.
If I had gone there not expecting anything people would have said: Your fault, you also didn't expect anything!

Quote:

In fact, I don't really feel Him much at all. But I STILL pray. Not feeling His Presence immediately or even after an hour does not let me off praying.

But at least you have experienced him before. This is something you can look back to. I wish I could do that.
And also everybody is different. I become frustrated very quickly. When I don't know how to spend time with God and when I repeat myself every day and say the same things to him every day and pray the same stuff every day then I simply become frustrated. It becomes really totally dry. It's like "well I guess I gotta go and >seek God< now even though I don't know what to talk about but I just have to do it". This is how I feel. It's not fun, it's totally dry and boring.

Posted by: jms

Jeri and Frederik,

Friends, when I eventually returned to my native village after 13 years of being "stranded" in the towns, we had a church gathering in which I talked to the youth. One of the things I said was," I know a lot of you young people are saying that there is no God because no one has ever seen God, no one has ever had a two-way talk with God, no one has ever heard God talking. There is a reason why God can not appear in a physical form, and can not talk in the languages of man. If you insist that He appears physically infront of you, what if He appears in a bright shining light out of the blue, won't you run for your life? OR, if He appears as a gigantic giant, won't you drop dead in fear? What if He appears like a Westerner, won't you say that he is an English God - when infact He is the God of all man? Anyway, it will be wrong to YOU if God appears in a physical form before your eyes. God is the universal God who speaks the language of silence which is understood to the heart of a thinking person. God speaks through His creations, the wonder and awe of nature manifest His existence and presence." Pls excuse me if that sounds ridiculous, I am not a scholar of the Bible or books of any religion. When I travel by air, my favourite seat is next to the window. I will look out the window and marvel at the mighty earth below. I tell myself that WHO ever has CREATED those meandering rivers, the mountains and valleys, the ocean, the cloud...the Creator has to be so much much more "powerful" than man who has created this fragile tiny little Boeing. Then, I begin to feel "feel very small, weak and helpless", in knowing that there IS something much greater than me, than man." In one of my Radio Motivation talks, I discussed the topic "WHO ARE YOU, WHO AM I, WHO ARE THEY?". I pointed out that when a man is blessed with strong body, good health, good fortune - he will behave as though he owns the world, as if he alone matters . But when faced with death, he will be reduced to nothing more than tears of hopelessness and despair. That ignorant, arrogant man can be YOU, ME AND THEM". I believe in humility and compassion, I believe in being grateful for the blessings in my life - that I am not physically disabled while thousands of others are , that I have enough to eat while thousands are starving, that I have many friends and I feel "free" while thousands are confined to tiny little spaces because of fear and guilt. I know that no matter how hard I try to be successful, I know that with my very limited ability(as compared to God) , I may fail. But the fact that I can somehow make it, make me oh so grateful - TO GOD. On a hunting trip I was startled by a growling noise - only to find a black cobra a mere 2 feet away from me, ready to strike. I never know how I had the strengh to "shoot up into the air" above and over the cobra. I heard it struck one second too late. It seems to me God help us and communicate with us in the mode that He alone understand best. Whenever I pray, my favourite prayer is, "Lord, please give me the strength to overcome my weaknesses. Please give me the strength to be worthy of the blood that you shed". Frederik my friend, you are giving some clues that you are doing fine - attending conferences, attending church, etc. I am sure, if you are dirt poor and disabled, you can't do all those things. Have a simple start by just by counting your blessings - I am sure you will feel good with yourself and with life at large. You deserve to be happy, and you can be happy. God bless

Posted by: Frederik

Hi jms.
Now do you believe in Jesus or what exactly is your spiritual state?

Tell me.

If you have not accepted him then what are you waiting for? Do you lack faith? If so then you can still pray to God to uncover your faith.

Posted by: jms

Hi Frederik,

TQ very much for your very relevant question. In order to answer, I need to continue from my previous message. Without doubt and I accept that THERE IS GOD ALMIGHTY, and the confusion of the world began when religions sprouted up and individually claimed to be THE TRUE RELIGION OF GOD. Jesus and Mohammed staked their claim too, as the LAST TRUE PROPHET. Now, here we need to go to the very basic inorder to find our individual path through utter chaos. What basic? We were born naked - with no books of religions attached to our body. But God give our built-in guides - our senses and the faculty of thoughts. To know God just by reading the Books and listening to the pastors or the imam, is USING ONLY OUR EYES AND EARS. We could be deaf and blind at the same time. God has given us much more tools than that. Try to "utilise every single tool" that God has given us for KNOWING JESUS and MOHAMMED. The two are worlds apart. The only common thing between them was their mission TO SAVE SOULS. From that point, they are the opposite poles. Please forgive me if in my ignorance I will say that , in order to save, ONE OF THEM believed in making the ultimate sacrifice with His own pride, dignity and very own life, while the other One believed in killing the non-believers inorder to save them. How far different can they be? Life is burdened with works, responsibilities,sicknesses etc. The companionship and friendship of people makes life much more bearable - so I choose the ONE that CHOOSES NOT TO KILL.

My friend Frederik, deep in my heart I seem to have and active bond with the Lord. 9 out of 10 people around me will tell you that I "seem to know God very well". They are all confused because I am not a church goer. Some people here may end up saying that I am self-rightist, no no, I am not. I feel sad when labelled as such - because I genuinely have a strong sense of compassion, and it pleases me so much whenever I can be of some help to those in need around me. Right now, in the hospital 23km away from my home, there is a lady with terminal cancer. All her children( 4 of them) are very young. At this moment now in my country, the school term has just begun. The kids are staying hundreds of miles away with relatives in a different town. Her husband is keep vigil on her bedside, so, no one is seeing to all the needs for the children to report for school. I have done all that I could for them - and it just isnt enough!!! Thinking of their plight brings tears to my eyes. Oh what if it is me in their shoes!!. I feel their pains. My friend Frederik, it should be clear to you - I AM ALL FOR JESUS THE COMPASSIONATE!!!

As for your last question, if you don't mind, pls let me keep it unanswered for now.

Remember Frederik, you deserve to be happy and YOU CAN BE HAPPY. God bless.

Posted by: JeriRose12

I had to think about your question for a while Frederik. The reason I didn't feel God's presence when first saved is....

I have no clue. Others in my church were getting touched.... I just stood there and wondered what it was all about.

What I really wondered was how they could say things like, "I love you, Sister," under "the power of The Holy Spirit," but during the week back bight and gossip and fight and criticize.... you get my drift. The sensations and feelings one may feel on their physical body during times with the Lord is not a sign of spirituality. Many have gotten into a service where the anointing is and cried and repented and so on.... but once back to their every day life, they seem unchanged.

If a person's experiences with God leave them unchanged, then I have to wonder if they are really from God. This is something I truly have NO explanation for -- so don't even ask why or how this can happen. I have seen people all moved in a service (and I would hope it meant a change in them), but the next day they were just the same, old rude or rascely person.

I absolutely do not understand this. Is the Holy Spirit just flowing so strong that it is impossible not to receive some kind of touch in such a meeting? I don't know. I just don't get it.

As a child, though, when others were getting moved on by the Spirit, I could be in the same service and feel nothing (yes, I was saved at that time). We went to "special meetings" in Canada, with pastors who were welcoming the move of the Holy Spirit into their churches, and my Sister started raising her hands and so on. I went to all the meetings, too, but I didn't raise my hands. I don't remember feeling much, though I do remember thinking it was cool and so on.

The first time I really remember feeling God was at the church in Cananda we began to attend when I was about seventeen. The Spirit came in a sweet way in those services. When I was twenty-something they prayed for me to be baptized with the Holy Spirit (at which time I spoke in tongues). I guess I began to feel God's Presence more after that.

I remember praying and praying for the courage to raise my hands in church. Then, the Pastor said if you're afraid to raise your hands publicly, start doing it privately in personal devotions. So I did that, and soon, I was doing it in church. But raising your hands doesn't make you spiritual, either! Neither, does dancing or tongues or falling or any of that! I want to see character in a person more than all that other stuff. Charles Swindoll, who does not speak in tongues, has many of the tongues talking preachers way beat in the character department.

What I concluded was that I prayed and read my Bible because it was the right thing to do. I did it because I loved God. I loved God because He first loved me. From the time I was quite little, I used to sit in the rocking chair and sing hymns or praise songs to Jesus. I loved doing that, so I guess the call to seek Him was always on me. Then, after I had prayed "the salvation prayer," but before I spoke in tongues, I remember trying to pray for an hour every day. I would set a timer that ticked down the hour.... So the call to pray was on me from a fairly young age. I just always thought prayer was of major importance.

I don't recall being frustrated. I recall just doing it, because I figured it was the right thing to do. At that time, I had no clue you could feel God's Presence, so I just did it because it felt right. The Bible said to do it, and preacher's preached that. I read my Bible through in a year at the encouragement of my church and so on. I didn't feel frustrated, though, I would get behind, and have to read extra chapters to get caught up. I don't know. I guess I don't get frustrated that easy. I was told part of the meaning of my name is that I believe perserverance is the way to the best results. So, I simply perservered. You know, the Bible doesn't say "He who feels God will be saved," it says "He that endures to the end will be saved." So, I endured.

You see, I was not seeking an experience in the early days. I was just seeking God. The problem I'm having right now is that I get frustrated when I don't FEEL His Presence. Oh, I know He's there. But I want to FEEL Him. You see, I started seeking the experience rather than just seeking Him. I wanted that FEELING back. But He told me I have to give Him TIME whether I feel anything or not. In the early days, I was doing the right thing. The seeking was it's own reward. Now, I have gotten so FEELing oriented that I don't like it when He doesn't "show up," as I call it. Well, He's been there the whole time! He said He would never leave us or forsake us. So why do I need Him to "show up"? It got so I was used to hearing His voice in my spirit, and I fell away from Bible reading. You see, we have 66 books of God's Words to us.... ANOINTED words, because the Holy Spirit breathed them. Yet, we seem to keep asking Him to speak to us.

Anyway, here is the upshot: stop worrying that you don't "feel" Him. Stop worrying that this means you aren't a good Christian. How about those people who would cry down at the alter in the meeting, and I thoguht they were repenting, but they came away unchanged? What good did "feel"ing Him do them? In fact, what good has "feel"ing God done me -- if I just continue on in my immaturity? Actually, I think I have matured more in this last year of spiritual deserts than I might have if I had felt His Presence more.

Well, I am going to take a rest now. I have been posting awhile.

God bless you, and just keep on keeping on.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006

Posted by: Frederik

* jms

Have you really accepted Jesus as your savior? Do you know that you're a sinner and that you need His forgiveness? Correct me if I'm wrong but from what you read I get the impression that you somehow adore Jesus' lifestyle and that you want to be like him. You want to help people and fret because it's never enough. Do you know that you're not saved by works? Otherwise you're being religious and this doesn't help you. Ask yourself these questions.

* jeri

I think those people which you described which felt something and were moved but did not display any changes were maybe only emotional. Especially in charismatic churches there is much emotionality. I think many people also really need this. They go to church and get their "high" and then make it through the week only looking for the next Sunday. This is not what I want. I don't want to feel something for the sake of feeling something. This doesn't really help me. Sure, feeling the holy spirit would be cool. Christians say that the holy spirit feels like electricity. Experiencing this would be interesting but what's the worth of this if this is all you get? This is nothing personal. This is not the same as hearing from God and being able to get to know him. Imagine Moses had only felt God and never heard God's voice. How should he have accomplished his mission? He couldn't have done it without hearing from God and getting orders.
I don't know it's simply so frustrating. I feel like an alien. In the house meeting for example where I go to it's like everybody has gifts and everybody hears from God or gets impressions or visions except me. Or sometimes somebody says something like "I feel the peace of God is here" and I sit there and don't feel anything. Or in church sometimes the pastor says stuff like "There's a glory cloud in the room" and I don't see anything. I don't experience anything of these spiritual things and this is frustrating and also scary. I don't want to be one of these christians who doesn't know God and who's of not much use. It makes all the difference in the world wether somebody really has contact with God or not. Once I witnessed how a christians prayed for a sick woman and he laid his hand on her and she fell down. The power was simply there and you felt like this person is really being used by God. And on the other hand take a christian who doesn't know all of this. When he prays for a sick person nothing happens at all. No holy spirit. This is what I mean. Such christians simply don't have it and I don't understand why not every christian can be like this christian and really have the power of God. For example when I have a problem and go to a christian then wouldn't it be cool if this christian got a word from God in order to help me? It doesn't help me when this christian only tries to give me some good human advice which he thinks are helpful.
This is really scary. I don't want to be this kind of christian. If I have a problem and don't know what to do then it would be so cool if I could simply ask God, why isn't this possible? It's like everything has to be so complicated and God is there but at the same time not accessible. He's only accessible for the christians which are in ministry and then you can go to church on Sunday and listen to those people to tell you how God really is and listen to those stories about what God told them the other day. This sucks. I don't want to hear from somebody else how God is. It's like a 2 class christianity. Those which are in touch with God and those which aren't.

Posted by: jms

Frederik,

How amusing that you are asking those questions to ME. It seems to me the TWO OF US should work hard together for the answers. Your questions corncern you and me more than any body else.

Bon voyage. God bless.

Posted by: Frederik

But these are questions only you can answer for yourself.

Posted by: JeriRose12

jms, it is great that you are compassionate. But compassion will not get you into heaven. You seem to be saying your good works show you are for Jesus, yet you don't want to answer the question as to whether you are saved. This is an important question. There is no other way to make heaven then to come to Jeus and through him come to the Father. You see, we are all created with a God shaped hole inside us. Come to Jesus and let Him fill that hole. Then, you will have assuarance you are headed to heaven. You can stand before God's judgement seat some day and say "I am am saved and justified [OK, that's Bible termonology] by the blood of Jesus."

I can explain further later, since I know you may not understand all the terms I just threw at you. We call it "Christianese," as in Christians seem to have their own language....

, and sometimes we forget how to talk to those not familiar with the Bible.

I will be out of town tomorrow night into sometime Saturday. I work 8 - 3 tomorrow, so will not be posting for at about a day and a half.

Frederik, I know it's hard. I haven't had but about three personal words in public meetings (in 34 years as a Christian).... and one was Jerry saying I had a spirit of death hanging over me. How's that for exciting? Some people seem to get CONSTANT words over them. My brother-in-law had many words over him, and now he's in the cult, but I believe that means God is not through with him yet.

The bottom line, to you, no matter how hard or frustrating it is, is to keep on seeking God. Don't get so caught up in wanting to "feel" Him or hear His voice. These things do come with time. But they are not the goal. Getting close to God is. I know it can sound confusing. Personally, I wonder how someone can be close to God without feeling Him or hearing His voice. Yet, I AM close to Him. It's hard to explain. Do you get close enough that you don't need feelings anymore? I haven't felt those feelings (or maybe just a little twinge of them) for so long.... yet, I know that I'm close to God. My thoguhts are constantly God-ward in all that I am doing.... I just keep on going, regardless.

As to those who pray and people get healed and fall down.... Well, some of them may have sin problems that are undealt with. I am much more looking for a Christ-like attitude on a person. I know you may wonder how that person can have that gift, then. I beleive if they continue with unrepentant sin that the anointing will lift from them.

The miraculous is definitely there, and don't quit asking God to show You his glory and all that we have discussed in the past. But don't make it your total focus. I know some who get so intent on hearing God's voice or seeing His glory or whatever that they get totally off, because they start relying on "experiences" rather than on the TRUTH of God's Word. If anything going on does not line up with God's Word, RUN FROM IT! That is the most important truth in all this.

Well, guys, I need to be getting to bed. Big day tomorrow.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006

Posted by: jms

Dear Frederik,

May be I should write a bit more. I have a highly educated senior government officer who used to laugh at the idea that God exist. To him all this God stuff were rubbish. But to my utter shock he became a Catholic , a very devoted Catholic who is even thinking of forming up a local Catholic Youth Movement. I know a few guys who abruptly left wellpaid jobs to live a hard life as pastors. Won't you be asking why don't you too recieve the call? It seems you are "setting a standard of fairness" which you insist that God keeps, so that it is right to say He is a Just and Fair God. But can't you see that we can't all be Pastors, or the Pope? Frederik, take a look at the message board - there are dozens of things to kneel before God to ask for mercy, forgiveness etc etc.There are other things to kneel in prayer for, instead of endlessly asking questions that put into questions God's authority and fairness. Remember, I did say that I ask similar questions as you do. But I really think I ought to keep some to myself. You are giving the impressison that you will ACCEPT GOD on your term, or on certain conditions. God is already caring for you ( I said you can start by counting your blessings), but he will NEVER DO IT ON YOUR TERM. Have you ever tried to ask yourself whether or not you have some weaknesses in your nature? Not knowing our own weaknesses is very dangerous, not only to our ownself but to soceity at large. Jerri did write that there were a lot of people who "did strange things", particularly during chruch gathering. For one moment they were changed, and the next moment they became their usual selves. But I wont be bothered by such things because ultimately I alone is accountable to the fate of my soul. What I am saying is, don't be too preoccupied about this or that concerning others in relation to God.You give the impresion you are. I said you deserve to be happy, and I know you can. Just make a simple begining. In your case, start counting all the good things in your life, and try to ask less questions. Lest, the more you ask the less you know and the more frustrated and disillusioned you will become.

God bless.

Posted by: Frederik

* jms

I don't think that asking less questions will improve anything. I still have them if I ask them or not. This count your blessings stuff also doesn't work. There is no easy formula to become happy. I cannot simply make a decision to be happy and then only think happy thoughts and all that, this doesn't work. Do you really think it's so easy? It's not and you don't even know what my problems are. This is nothing which you can simply wipe away by changing the way you look at things.

* jeri

What is a christian able to do when he hears nothing from God? When there's no contact at all? Not much I would say. It's totally senseless like a pilot who has no navigation system and simply flies around. But this is exactly what I have. If this is everything which you get as a christian then being a christian is really boring. You convert and that's it. And then there are those christians which cannot even comprehend that you're not satisfied with this. They only tell you this "God talks to you through the bible" stuff. But when I for example don't know what to do with my life or when I don't know what to study then the bible doesn't tell me what to do. There is no page in the bible where it's written what I shall do. Know what I mean?
And this simply sucks. When you can't even ask God and get an answer then you're totally on your own and make your own decisions and don't even have to ask God or count on him. Is this how life as a christian usually looks like?
Or another thing which also upsets me is that some christians cannot understand that maybe there are people which might have the desire to maybe feel God's love. They cannot comprehend this. They simply say "read the bible cause the bible says God loves you". But they don't understand that there is a difference between reading something and feeling something. I can read something and still not understand it or realize it. Imagine you have a small child which desires to feel loved and then instead of hugging this child you only tell him "I love you soooooo much" but you don't let it come close then this also wouldn't be the same. It's not different with God.
When I feel lonely or when I'm sad or depressed or scared then the thought that I have the holy spirit inside doesn't help me at all. Not a bit. In these moments you don't sit there and philosophize about having the holy spirit in these moments you just wish you had something real, tangible, experiencable. But they just don't understand this and even give you the feeling that desiring something real is bad cause then you don't have faith. I mean come on. Shall I simply try to induce feelings by having faith? Like thinking "I have faith that I am loved" and then I wait until I feel something? This doesn't make sense to me.

Posted by: jms

Frederik,
I am sorry that I don't know your problems. I guess you do have some very serious problems, but I don't know what exactly. But I do know that asking those questions with out ending, will not solve anything for you. I imagine that you may even come to the point where you will be asking :- 1. Why can't you feed a hundred people with a loaf of bread- when the Bible said it could be done? 2. Why can't you move a mountain - when the Bible said it could be done? 3. Why can't you raise the dead - when the Bible said it could be done? Why why why why...? And may I ask, How much closer are you to God after all the questions that you have asked? I admit, there is no easy way to happiness. But there are certainly easy ways to a less stressful life, one of which is to accept who we are, what we are and pray for the best.

Jerri,

Please may I ask one question - a question which I think has never been asked on this web. Can a person be baptised by some one through the Internet? If possible, I think a lot of people will want to be baptised personally by the Pope or Reverend Billy Graham.
I hope this question is acceptable under "Christain Discussion".

TQ. God bless.

Posted by: Rmartel

Hi
Interestingly enough the word Christian was first used Antioch .(follower or sent by Jesus refers to the action or verb) Many people use the word Christian quite loosely but do not know him. Do they hear his gentle voice in their heart? In the rev of Jesus the messiah (Christ) in his address to the 7 churches the word (Christian) is not used. Many will say Lord! Lord!Using his name Like the Pharicees "though my word is on their lips it is not in their heart" and the opposite on the right hand "That if you confess that Jesus is Lord and (What?) ....Believe it in your heart,you shall be save.

In Rev to the Church of Philiadephia; the word refers to "Jews who claim to be Jews yet they are not,but do lie."
I encourage you to keep asking questions."Out of the line of David shall come forth a King" a king has the roar of a lion and David was the King of Judah first; then of Isreal
But always ask of him first(Jesus) as he is the way and the truth and the life
and no one comes to the Father but thru him.
Religion is a controlled box. Jesus taught to free them of this controlled box and challenged them to think outside th box. John Ch 8 (whole chapter)
The word says in reference to the Jews 'and many believed on him. (John 8 v30)...." ,as a result of this Jesus wanted to take them further out of bondage(John 8 33) They answered him we be abraham's seed, and were nnever in bondage(Ch8 V36 )"If the Son, therefore make you free you shall be free indeed" and they took up stones to cast at him...." and he only wanted to reason with them to set them free much like some today claiming to know Christ but in bondage to a doctrine of demons as Paul wrote to Timonthy to watch out for. John 16 say we are given the Spirit of truth to set us free.
Jesus is up to your challenge and much loves you with all his heart and all his ,Soul and all His Mind.
Jacob wresled with him to with his Intellect;but the father who has sent his Son and he wants to reason with you. "Come reason with me for my thoughts are higher then yours" so that he can get you from Intellect to Faith that is why what was mention above to you I CAME TO KNOW NOTHING SAVE JESUS CHRIST CRUCIFIED......IN FEAR AND IN TREMBLING...
BUT IN THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE SPIRIT AND OF POWER "
hE DID NOT SPEAK A WISDOM OF THIS WORLD BUT ONE THAT WAS HIDDEN DOWN THRU THE AGES.
How did Paul get their. Jesus confronted him on the road to Damascus, and caused him to lay down his worldly Jewish believes of who God was according to the Pharicees.
And he wants us all to do the same. Inquire of him like David before a battle so that we may win!
Does Jesus speak to you I believe so. Some times you need to go to the source.
He did say the world is decieved and also if it were possible even the Elect.
Why is it not possible for the Elect to be decieved? They have Faith tha t Jesus first love them and they build on that love so that they can love in the same way.
It is not about being a Scholar but loving his Children who are the ones that recieve you in love
John 13:20 KJV VERILY VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU. HE THAT RECEIVETH
WHOMSOEVER I SEND RECEIVETHME;AND HE THAT RECEIVETH ME RECEIVETH HIM THAT SENT ME.
WE ARE DOORWAYS TO JESUS FOR OTHERS TO PASS THRU
ON THE OTHER (LEFT)HAND THE PHARICEES STOOD AT THE DOO AND WOULD NOT LET ANYONE GOE IN AND WOULD NOT GOE IN THEMSELVES.
I have Faith in him that sent me that this will help you and others who hear.Get to know him 'I AM HE IN WHOM THE PHROFETS SPAKE AND THE BOOK OF MOSES BEARS WITNESS TO'....THEN HE OPENED UP THEIR MIND TO THE SCIPTURES...'
RMARTEL
Rmartel

Posted by: Frederik

Hi Rmartel!

I always hear stuff like I think too much or that I'm too intellectual but what shall I do? I am this way. I can't change it. I also don't know what I should change. Shall I stop thinking or what?

As if I'm doing this on purpose. I think every human thinks in certain patterns and you cannot simply change this. It sounds like it's up to me to either change this somehow or I won't be able to get close to God. As if God was unable to help me. I don't understand this. At least I'm curious and think about these things and try to find answers. Maybe I also try to find answers about not so important things but there are many not so important things which are still interesting and besides this I also wouldn't know what to do instead. But somehow everything is so messed up I'm afraid nothing will change cause I don't even know what to do. I am clueless and unless God does something it will go on like this. I'm so tired of talking to God and repeating myself and saying the same things again and again and not knowing what to do instead. I can either say nothing or I can say the same stuff again and again and pray the same prayers again and again, this is so frustrating. I'm tired of this.

Posted by: Rmartel

Sometime ago I read a book called "The Diciple". It was very revealing about a south american Pastor he decribe the above topic as the Meat of the word.
I agree. The Apostle had laid down everything he was taught as a Pharicee
when God thru Jesus reasoned with him. Jesus reasoned with Nicodemus in John Ch.3. "Art thou a master of Isreal, and knoweth not these things...."
Jesus reasoned with him. It is written "come reason with me for my thought are higher than yours..."
I myself claim to know nothing unless God reasons with me on a matter thru Jesus by his teacher the Holy Spirit.
The Father uses our intellect;what we think we know and reason with this in order to get to Faith ;the unseen ( blessed are those who have not seen yet believe) Faith is the sustance of things hope for.
Prov 3:5 Lean not on thine own understanding but trust in the Lord with all thy heart.
Intellect is what I have been told the Enemy of Faith but with Gods reason you can get there. He can work with it.
The Scholars like Nicodemus and the Pharicees knew the Scriptures but did not have the revlation of them in their heart ;thus did not know Jesus and did not know Abraham (John ch 8 )
Jesus is an Extremist according to the world because he does not comprimise with the world or the evil one. Also the words that he spoke and the will that he had was from the father. What does the world call him.
Most importantly He is Love like our heavenly Father.
One is not to Judge lest ye be Judge yourself for we do not know the heart of a person unless reveal to us by God thru Jesus and the Gift of The Holy Spirit.
God has Revealed plenty to me by summitting all to him of my Intellect for his reason as a daily surrender.
The Bible states aviod endless Debate: What the point? Unless there is a point.
Possibly Salvation and Gods Love for Frederick.
I was like Frederick always wondering. I needed answers. The best answer I Got was when Jesus Truly showed me that he loved me and cared what i thought and prompted me with thoughts of him when I focused on him.
I am still leaning and claim to know nothing other then what God tells me
for their is a lot of lies out their in this world.
Jesus desires that I would bring people on to him instead of unto myself.
David Inquired of him;I have learned to do the same.
Jesus loves you Frederick and so do I.
God Bless you all on the Prayer board in Jesus mighty name Son of the Living God.
Rmartel

Posted by: MarkSentMe

Quote:

I'm so tired of talking to God and repeating myself and saying the same things again and again...
I can either say nothing or I can say the same stuff again and again and pray the same prayers again and again, this is so frustrating. I'm tired of this.

Why are you saying the same things over and over? Matthew 6:7 states: "When you pray, do not say the same thing over and over again making long prayers like the people who do not know God. They think they are heard because their prayers are long."
No wonder you're bored and frustrated! Your repetitive and tired "prayers" are bouncing off the ceiling! Our God is a LIVING God! Having a relationship is talking to God the way you would talk to anyone you have a relationship with. It's like calling a good friend. I call a friend for no reason at all, just to talk and to connect. Same with God. Some things I am burdened about and I pray about more than once. Then I let God work. But everyday, I talk to Him. While I am at my job, vacuuming or mopping, I am talking to Him. About 1730, the sun goes down and I stop working and go outside to admire the beautiful artwork our Lord has created and I thank Him for the break and the beauty. Most of my prayers are thanks and praise. I know tah without Him, I can do nothing.
I hear His voice everywhere. Sometimes He speaks through music I hear (not just Christian music). He speaks through people. He speaks through this board and through some forwarded emails.
Once I realized it's not about me, that it's all about Jesus, everything lined up. Once I got over myself and stopped trying to make God into what I thought or was taught He was and began to have the faith of a child, amazing things started to happen. My mind and eyes are open to all He has to offer. I know that He is in control. There are no coincidences. I know that when you let God in your plans and in your life, it's all good. Not "I know, BUT..what if?" Stop that!
Once you surrender and give God full control of your life, you will hear His voice. I don't mean control for an hour. Or control unless He doesn't do things Frederik's way, then it's back onto the 'net to find another instant gratification religion.
It's not that you're an intellectual. You are a skeptic. Plain and simple. You want something to believe in, but if it doesn't turn out YOUR way, you want the escape hatch to say,"See? I told you so!" Stop being disrespectful to God. He does things HIS way in HIS time. And if you are hauling around unconfessed sin and refuse to repent and turn from your worldly ways, your prayers will continue to bounce off the ceiling.
Jesus never said His Way was easy.
There are times I have to wait for an answer to my prayers. Sometimes I get an answer right away. Other times, I must be patient. Patience has been the hardest lesson for me because I used to think I could do things myself. When I did things "my way", it got messed up. Now I pray and WAIT!
There are people who wait YEARS for an answer. I prayed for a second child. I waited 8 years for him, but I have a son! God's time schedule, not ours.

Posted by: Frederik

Thank you Rmartel for your nice words.

* mark

The problem is that I don't know what to talk to about God. I can only talk about the same stuff day in day out. And I can also only pray for the same things day in day out since I have the same problems. This is becoming really boring. I pray the same prayers (not exactly the same but they have the same meaning or content) every day. God change me, God help me against this and that. It's more or less the same.

Posted by: JeriRose12

You wouldn't even be saved if you had heard nothing from God! It is God, through His Holy Spirit, who led you to pray that initial prayer of salvation. And you also can not say you haven't heard from him, because you have read the Bible. THE BIBLE is 66 books of God's words to you. Quit saying reading the Bible doesn't tell you what to do. It DOES! It says:

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? (Micah 6:8)

That's it, Frederik. Is is MAN, not God, who gets all hung up on "What is God calling me to do?" In the New Testement, this is what we are called to do:

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15).

You can argue that this was said to his disciples. But we are ALL supposed to be disciples of Christ. Sooooo....this is the call on our lives. I don't mean to literally stand up in a pulpit or on a street corner and preach. I mean, that we preach by our ACTIONS and words 24/7. What are we saying? Our lives should be preaching Christ to others wherever we are.

I never said to quit thinking. You don't know the way I question. I constatnly wonder before God about ALL KINDS OF THINGS. The difference is I know these questions have no answers in this life time, so I refrain from posting them on here. I have to TRUST God. Not question and question and question. I am not going to be thinking day and night of what could be the possible answer to all my questions. I know you will probably say something like "You just don't understand how my mind works...." and "You don't question as much as I do," etc. Well, YOU don't know how MY mind works. I have probably asked every question you have ever posted AND MORE. I just wonder about them before God, not expecting any kind of concrete answer. God will probably answer less than 1/10th of a percent of my questions in this life time, if that. That's how many I ask. Don't believe me, but it's true. I don't have any desire to post all my questions up here. I am on this board to pray, not get involved in l----o----n----g discussions that will not get me one iota closer to God.

Here is a tid bit to tuck away: Just when you think you have God figured out, He does something in a totally unexpected way or shows you a new insight....and you realize you had NOTHING figured out.

So hang it up. Get over it. You are not going to get the answer to these questions. Besides, NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY, YOU TELL US IT IS NOT AN ADEQUATE ANSWER. We do not know the answers to these questions; God is not going to give you the answer to these questions; so it makes no sense for you to be asking these questions.

You come away from these threads banging your head against a wall. So what is the purpose that you ask all these questions for? From the very first question you posted, you have expressed that our answers don't help you and our advice does not work for you. So, I honestly have no clue why you bother to keep asking questions. What is your intent in doing so? It can't be to get answers, because you say that none of our answers are any good.

I sometimes get the feeling that you want to make sure we know that no-one has it as bad as you do. You seem to want to be the worst off of us all. You won't let anyone top you in the "I am struggling spritiually," department. Etc.

I just had ANOTHER awesome answer to prayer: My niece is no longer with this guy, Nate, whom she was wanting to marry when she turned 18. Turned out he was two timing her and he chose the other girl! That was the ANSWER I was wanting, and I got it!!! That's what PRAYER is for, and this is a PRAYER BOARD.

I don't get how you can spend hours on here posting in these question threads, over and over voicing your doubts and frustrations, but you tell me that I should not expect you to pray 24/7. How come you can spend so much time in these threads, but you get mad when I ask to you to pray (I can already here you saying, "I don't get mad."). This just makes no sense. If you can't seem to think of anything to pray during that time, how can you go on and on and on and on and on and on....with these endless questions. Try going on and on and on and on and on and on with the Lord! SPEAK to Him as much as you do to us in your l---o---n---g replies on here!

Ah, well, my reply is getting too long, and I am probably wasting my time here as much as I say you are in asking these questions in the first place!

I am sorry that none of our answers are any good and that our advice does not work.

NOT! It's a fact of life that we are FINITE. We have tiny, little minds. God is ALL KNOWING! We are only called to BE STILL AND KNOW THAT HE IS GOD! We are called to KNOW CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED. We are not called to know the answer to a zillion questions. Which I have said before. Sorry for the repeat. Just trying to drive it home.

I guess it isn't working, so why try now?

OK, I'm outta here! See ya! Good night! Goodbye?

Until we meet again....

~JeriRose~
JESUS is the answer!!!

Posted by: JeriRose12

Frederik, you are doing the right thing in praying the same things over. Here is the scritpure to back it up. Luke 18, New International Version:

The Parable of the Persistent Widow

1Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. 3And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, 'Grant me justice against my adversary.'
4"For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, 'Even though I don't fear God or care about men, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming!' "

6And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

However when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth? That, my friend, is the key question. Are you going to keep praying the same things over and over, a proof of faith, or are you going to give up because, in your words, "it's boring"? When Jesus returns he wants to find faith in you! Without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6). So, if I was you, I would just keep going. In Matthew 7:7 we are instructed to keep on asking, seeking and knocking.

~JeriRose~
JESUS is the answer!!!

Posted by: Frederik

Hi Jeri!

It's not that the answers here don't help me. In some cases they don't help me but these are rather questions which focus on issues and it's really hard to provide answers which help me. I think if I had to deal with someone like me I wouldn't even know what to say to myself. I think there is no smart answer which solves everything.

I think I'm really not an easy case, but I don't do this on purpose. As for the questions... The problem is once I have a question I cannot dismiss it, it doesn't work. If it's an important question then I have to get an answer otherwise it chases me and I don't find "peace" again. I simply think a lot about spiritual things and then I also get many questions and after all this stuff is also really interesting.

Quote:

Try going on and on and on and on and on and on with the Lord! SPEAK to Him as much as you do to us in your l---o---n---g replies on here!

I don't know what to talk about God for such a long time. When I talk to God then it's always about the same things which are on my mind. What should I talk about instead? About trivial things? The weather? Or what I had for dinner?
I really don't have so much to talk to about God and also when I talk to God I have to be focused. I have to bundle my thoughts and reflect about things. I could not talk to God when I cannot concentrate. My mind has to be free. If there is noise or something else which bothers me then it doesn't work.
You ask yourself how I can spend much time posting questions and less time talking to God? Simply because posting questions is easier and it's doable. I could not spend hours talking to God simply because I don't know how to spend the time. During the last holidays I really wanted to seek God and to spend time with him. I was really hungry but I simply met my limitations. I never last more than 1 hour. After 1 hour I had said everything which I could think of and then I didn't know what to do anymore. What should I have done? What do you do when you've said everything you wanted to say? Even though I wanted to achieve something I wasn't able to do more and this was very frustrating and I became so frustrated that I stopped this stuff and also couldn't motivate me to start again cause it seemed so senseless to me. Every night when the others were sleeping I would walk up and down in my room and say the same stuff to God every time. God please change this and God please do that.... and I saw no difference. I have prayed about so many things. God give me more love for the other people.
But I don't have more love. Actually one should think that God is totally keen on answering such a prayer, but somehow nothing happens. And when you pray for the same things again and again and when you confess the same things all the time and can't do more than simply admit your shortcomings but at the same time you can't do anything against them on your own and pray for a change and you see no changes then it becomes really frustrating.

I really would like to know how to spend more time with God without becoming bored or frustrated. I would like to know that what I'm doing is effective. But when you don't get any sense of achievement then it's really hard to keep a routine going, especially for me cause I become frustrated easily. It's really a struggle to spend time with God cause it's exhausting. Concentrating and all this is exhausting. And praying for others is also kind of exhausting. Finding the right words and all that is exhausting. When somebody has a prayer request for something serious then I can't just pray: God, please help this person.
I try to pray seriously about the things and this requires trying to somehow putting myself in the position of this person otherwise you cannot pray with passion. And this is exhausting, at least for me. But maybe I also think that if I don't pray with enough passion and sobriety then my prayers are not effective.