Pages: 1

Once saved, always saved, if backslidden?

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: Illuminate

Greetings once again~
I just noticed I posted my inquiry in the wrong area and will repost here!

I recieved another email from a friend whom I dated 2 years ago. He is stationed at Baghdad and requested prayers on his behalf. I immediately corresponded letting him know that he would be protected by the Lord. I suggested to invite Christ into his heart. Well, he then responded back commenting how he was already saved but that it was so cute I did that. In any case, he went on sharing how he was all about God and how he lost a few friends because of it, he then disclosed how he backslidded and went back to wordly ways. I knew him 2 years ago and he was backsliding alright, so I'm assuming he got saved a year or 2 before that time. My point, if he got saved about 4 years ago and has backsliden since then, now in Baghdad, I'm not sure if he is still saved, is he? Is it true once saved always saved?? Or if saved you must show good fruits and not backslide? God knows we are not perfect and that we live in a word filled with temptation so maybe he still is saved. I'm a little confused. I know I fear to do anything wrong against the Lord...If he is not saved because he has backsliden, what should I suggest to him? On a positive side, I feel the Lord took him away from the wordly way and into Baghdad for a reason, to seek HIM again. However, he is under the impression that once saved always saved. I'm not sure I believe this, especially if you have backsliden for 2 to 3 years. Please let me know your thoughts. It is obvious the Lord wants to use me in his life by ministering to Luke. I would like to be certain how to advice him on his situation.

Thank u in advance, and God bless all.

Illuminate

PS: Thank you Sulten for all the information provided. I must ask you and others, how can I gently respond to my friend Luke without bombarding him with so much knowledge? He is in Baghdad and is obviously in a desperate situation where he needs prayer. He is a good person and feels conviction of his wrong doings but he has a misconception of being saved. I would like to gently reply having him acknowledge he is not truly saved yet, especially since he himself confessed he backslided. How can I encourage him to repent again, what do I say without sounding as if I'm finding many faults in him and he is not saved? Obviously the Lord lead him to email me for prayer requests since he knows how close I have gotten with thy Lord but I want to be as gentle and compassionate as possible so that he will continue trusting me enough to share more gospel with him. PLease, any advice will be well taken.

THanks again for the truth...


Posted by: JG

Can a Christian lose their Salvation?

Please go to
Jerry Lessons

or click here

http://www.annointed.net/ForumTopic_35975__15.htm

it has all the verses in the Old and New Testament on this subject.

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: Rockrz

When someone asks me what I think about "Once saved, Always saved", I always tell 'em that I never think about it cause I don't want out!


Posted by: Illuminate

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG
Can a Christian lose their Salvation?

Please go to
Jerry Lessons

or click here

http://www.annointed.net/ForumTopic_35975__15.htm

it has all the verses in the Old and New Testament on this subject.

Pastor Jerry


Hello Pastor Jerry and thank u for acknowledging my inquiry. I viewed the link that was provided, thank you. I agree with everything, however, I don't want to bombard my friend with so much because, as I stated before, he is in Baghdad and is in a desperate situation asking for prayers. He has backslidden and has a misconception of once saved always saved. I simlpy want to respond with gentleness and not appear as if I am finding fault within him. How can I approach the situation especially when I would like to encourage him more than anything. I must be selective of my word usage so that I will not intimidate nor scare him off. What gently words do u suggest I correspond with in regard to not saved if he has backsliden, and, how can he renew his vows?

THank you in advance and God bless,

Illuminate


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminate
He has backslidden and has a misconception of once saved always saved
As far as God is concerned, once we are born-again, that's an eternal kinda thing. God's is not looking for excuses to keep people out of Heaven.

WE are the ones who choose to walk with God, or turn away from God.
It's the goodness of God that causes people top repent so remind this guy that God has never turned His back on Him and Jesus is right where he left Him.

It also never hurts to remind the back slidden that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction, but if we sow to the Spirit we reap Zoe life...God is not mocked, what we sow is what we reap!


Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminate
Hello Pastor Jerry and thank u for acknowledging my inquiry. I viewed the link that was provided, thank you. I agree with everything, however, I don't want to bombard my friend with so much because, as I stated before, he is in Baghdad and is in a desperate situation asking for prayers. He has backslidden and has a misconception of once saved always saved. I simlpy want to respond with gentleness and not appear as if I am finding fault within him. How can I approach the situation especially when I would like to encourage him more than anything. I must be selective of my word usage so that I will not intimidate nor scare him off. What gently words do u suggest I correspond with in regard to not saved if he has backsliden, and, how can he renew his vows?

THank you in advance and God bless,

Illuminate


The link was not for him but for you.
The only thing you can do is pray and love him into the kingdom.

I am always amazed how sinners believe in eternal security.

You must pray his eyes are opened to the things of God.
For until he sees a need to repent nothing will change his mind.

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: Rockrz

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there are scriptures that do support OSAS...but then again, there are scriptures that support the idea that we do have to actually maintain a personal relationship with God on a continual basis to get to Heaven.

Since it's God that is going to be doing the judging, only He knows who is going to go to Heaven, and much of it is going to be based upon what each person has revelation of.

I wouldn't be so convinced that the man is going to burn in hell...

Has he, and does he confess Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior?
If so, then he is claiming to be a born-again Christian and who are you to claim he's not and he's going to hell?

Are you God?...then how is it your job to determine who's saved and who isn't? You can't force people to do anything, so if this guy isn't living as one who is sincerily following Jesus, just fast and pray for the guy based on what the scriptures teach concerning praying for others...and get on with your life!

Here are 8 scriptures that specifically deal with praying for those you might consider to be lost:

1) Matthew 12:29
"Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."

We should bind the devil from working in their lives, and take authority over the enemy. In Luke 10:19 Jesus said "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power (authority) of the enemy". Jesus has given us authority to take authority over the enemy. We must exercise our authority by speaking out these scriptures against the enemy. God's Word MUST be declared over them in faith continually, and consistently if you ever expect to see the person(s) you're praying for come to Jesus.


2) Matthew 16:19
"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Declare (outloud) in faith that you are binding the devil's ability to work in their lives, and declare (outloud) in faith that the person you are praying for is loosed from the control of the devil and all carnal influences of darkness in the world.


3) Mark 16:17
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues".

Demand (outloud) in faith that you are casting the devil out of their life! Jesus has given us power and authority to do this, and He will see to it that this is carried out if we don't give up and quit standing on this promise.


4) 2 Corinthians 10:4,5
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.

Speaking God's Word (promises of freedom) over someone's life is mighty through God for getting the results of pulling down strongholds (enemy activity) in people's lives.


5) Luke 10:2
Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. (Also see: Matthew 9:38)

Declare (outloud) in faith that labourers (witnesses of the Gospel) are continually coming into their lives to declare the goodness of Jesus and His desire to set them free from darkness.


6) 2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Declare (outloud) in faith that their minds are no longer darkened and the light of the glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ is now shining on them, and in their minds (understanding, vision, ability to see what is right)


7) Ephesians 1:17,18
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.

Declare (outloud) in faith that the eyes of their understanding (their mind, vision, ability to see) are now opened and declare that they have the ability to see what is right.


8) Hebrews 1:14
Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Declare (outloud) in faith that God's angels have already been sent forth to minister salvation (deliverance, freedom) to the person you're praying for by bringing witnesses of the Gospel to them, by protecting them from destruction, and by ministering thoughts of the promises in God's Word to their thoughts.


Posted by: Illuminate

[QUOTE=Rockrz]I hate to be the one to tell you this, but there are scriptures that do support OSAS...but then again, there are scriptures that support the idea that we do have to actually maintain a personal relationship with God on a continual basis to get to Heaven.


...and get on with your life!

Thank u for the sciptures. I can clearly see you have excellent sciptural points. Just for the record, I have moved on with my life, lol! My goodness, it has been 2 years now. I only mentioned we dated, I didn't say we were in love. However, I care deeply for others, including him. It is in my nature to be compassionate towards others which is why I try my very best to be selective with words to express. I am only expressing my opinion of once saved, always saved. I'm not completely convinced but then again, God forgives those whom repend and continue to seek and follow him, no matter what they have done. Yes, he has confessed Christ as his Lord and Saviour. I am not judging him but only want him to see the truth. I simply don't want him to keeping believing that he is saved and can get away with sin at the same time. Luke is very influential and very handsome. His looks have gotten him in trouble. I am all about being gentle with words and not bombarding others with so much knowledge. In fact, I have had a loss of a good friendship because of turning to Christ. It is okay, God is on my side.

Thanks again and well taken points. God bless.

Illuminate


Posted by: Rockrz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminate
[QUOTE=Rockrz]I have had a loss of a good friendship because of turning to Christ
Any friendship that won't allow you to have a close relationship with your Creator through Jesus Christ...is NOT a "good" friendship.

Sometimes, we just have to endure hardship as a good soldier and refuse to allow things of this world to cause us to get emotional.

You should always exercise dominion over your emotions, and don't allow your emotions to have dominion over you.

You know...people come and go. All you are personally responsible to God for is what His Word and the Holy Spirit is directing you to do.

If you miss it, repent, get up and move on....The key thing is to learn from your mistakes and get God's wisdom for it so you don't repeat the same mistake over, and over.

Sure, we all love our friends and people we've been close to...but always remember that they ultimately have the God given right to choose how they are going to live their life.

In most cases, the best way to witness to someone is by living a good life walking with Jesus in front of your friends. Your relationship with the Lord is your FIRST and foremost priority in life.

If someone doesn't like that and doesn't want to hang around with you anymore...then good riddance!


Posted by: eagle4him

For Your friend, just pray. The Bible teaches that if someone sins to pray to the Father on their behalf (intercession) that their sins be forgivven. Thank you, Jesus! I know in my own life that many have prayed for the forgiveness of my sins!

OSAS used to bother me because of the harm that I have seen it do to so many people. They think they can do whatever they want and still be saved. That is called DECEPTION. The problem with deception is that it deceives. I know that sounds kinda dumb...but it is true. There is absolutely no way you or any other person can argue or debate with a deceived person. They think they are right, that's that, and no one can change their mind! That is, no one except the Holy Spirit. And that is God's job, not ours.

The truth is that God will never leave you nor forsake you. But that does not mean that you cannot choose to leave Him. In fact we all do from time to time...and anyone that says they don't is a liar. For we all fall short of the glory! But we do have Jesus as our advocate, and IF we confess our sins and repent, then they are forgiven----THEY ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY FORGIVEN! God's love for us is UNCONDITIONAL, however, forgiveness is CONDITIONAL.

John 3:3 says that unless we are born-again we will not see the Kingdom of heaven. CONDITIONAL. This does not say that every born-again person will go to heaven. That is just a pre-requisite.

Here's the explanation the Holy Spirit gave me on this Scripture recently. I live in Texas, and the University of Texas recently won the national championship football title. In order to play football for the team you first have to have talent, and you have to be a student at the University. those are just pre-admission requirements to play football. Not every student will play football or be on the team. But every football player is a student.

In Fact, many (greek definition means more than half) will say, "Lord, Lord..." (will have at one time asked Jesus to be the Lord of their life)..and I (Jesus) will say, depart from me you who practice lawlessness (lifestyle of sinning)...I never knew you. Matthew ch 7

And you are probably saying how can Jesus forget. Ray comfort and other OSAS teachers say that these people had false conversions. What? These people actually at one time had their promise of future salvation (that's what I call it, because no one is actually saved until they depart from their earthly bodies, either from death or when Jesus comes back for us in the rapture) In fact they also had the Holy Spirit and His gifts or they could not prophesy in Jesus name (unlike the 7 sons who tried to copy Peter) could not heal and perform any other signs and wonders in Jesus name. But something happened to them along the way which caused Jesus to say He never knew them.

Here's what it is. When we ask for forgiveness and repent, our sins are cast into the sea of forgetfullness. When Jesus forgets, it is like the sin never existed. Thank God for Calvary! But when we then continue to live in sin, all of our good deeds and sins are held against us. The Scriptural explanation is found in Ezekiel 18:24.

Jesus says that many (more than half) of the born-again Bible thumping so-called Christians will meet with this surprise at death. And He already says that all of the people that have never come to him will not go to heaven. This is why Scriptures say that many are called (we have all been called to eternal life) but few are chosen (we are chosen by our obedience to God, not by some prayer or by some lottery).

Yes my friend, wide is the gate that leads to destruction and narrow is the path that leads to eternal life---and only a FEW find it!

The Apostle Peter say it like this, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, how much more difficult for the UNGODLY?" Notice his words are...TO BE SAVED which means a future occurence. He did not say those that have been saved by saying a prayer.

Personally, I do not believe that you get your promise of salvation by saying a prayer like is taught throughout the church today. If it was that simple, then we would not have to have the highest payment of all times--the prescious blood of Jesus.

In fact Romans 10: 9-12 says to confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. So many have perverted this Scripture and say that it means we must confess our sins to be born again. Confess means to speak it out loud! Use your mouth and speak that Jesus is the Lord of your life and believe it in your heart and you will be saved!

Once you are saved (born-again) then you are a child of God through adoption, and then and only then do you have a right to pray to the Father and ask that your sins be forgiven. There just simply is not a Scriptural basis for the "sinner" to be able to pray to the Father. You first have to be a son.

Romans 10 was a letter written by the Apostle Paul to the church in Rome. He was instructing them what they must do in order to keep their salvation.
In the book of Acts, when Paul and Silas were in prison he instructed the jail guard what he must do in order "to be saved". Paul said he must BELIEVE and be baptized, and he and his entire house would be saved.

Believe means that you hear about Jesus, and then follow what He says. It is a step of action based on faith, not just some idea that you accept in your head. For if you only accept this idea in your head, and then never do anything with it, the Apostle Paul says that you have received your gift in vain!

The man on the cross that was next to Jesus never said a "sinner's prayer". He acknowledged who Jesus was by speaking it out--CONFESS, and he accepted Jesus in his heart, and Jesus said he would be in paradise (heaven) with Him that very day (not after Jesus spent three days in hell).

Friends, read your Bible and pray to the Holy Spirit for illumination. Don't believe everything that Doctor so-and-so teaches. Don't believe everything that is preached from the pulpit, either, but search the scriptures daily and find out the truth for yourself. Man's traditions are not the same as God's truth.


Posted by: Illuminate

Wow! Thank u so much eagle4him. This is exactly what I was looking for and I hope you don't mind but I feel compelled to email my friend Luke this information...It is just amazing...I thank the Lord for giving you wisdom in providing me with all this scriptural information. And that goes for the rest as well.

God bless all and thanks again...

Illuminate


Posted by: alisha119

Hi, I know this post is pretty old, but what I honestly feel is that if you really mean it when you ask God to come into your heart and save you then you won't use your saving as an excuse to do bad things (because you think you can do whatever you want now and still go to Heaven). If you really mean it, then you will take it as it is. A redemption of your past and a new beginning. A clean slate. Not a lifetime supply of get out of jail free cards. If you think of it as the latter, I wouldn't think you could honestly say you were saved and gave yourself to God to start with.

God Bless,
Alisha


Posted by: Christian Commando

I too realize this line of posts is old, yet, I couldn't help but interject my impressions.

Very good alish119. Fact is, God declares in His Word, the Holy Spirit is to be allowed by us to help us change, putting off the old nature and putting on the new.

Secondly where OSAS goes- relaize, Scriptures do clearly show like in Hebrews 6:4-6 that a person can lose thier Salvation on the premise of thier own decision to walk away from God. God also declares the "4 C's" I call them. You become a Christian. But when you start to stray, God will chastise you. If you develope a contrite heart, God will eventually let you go and turn you over to satan-( and a premature death- casket). (See also the Old Test story of King Saul and the witch he saught).

Now, even tho King Saul belonged to God, notice in the New Test where the list of Old Test. Patrarchs are, King Saul is not mentioned.

Just because God declares no man can pluck a True Child of His out of His Hand, does not mean they can't choose of thier own free will to leave God.

God Bless!!