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Mechanics of healing...

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Posted by: Rachel R

I want to know how healing works.

I don't think God or Jesus heal anyone now.

I think that Jesus bought and paid for healing and turned that over to the 'Body of Christ', the church, the Christians, US.

I think we have missed the POINT of healing, that it is to put something back the way it should be.

It is basically a corrective and a creative action.

It is the same mission given in the Garden of Eden to Adam. He was to take the garden and expand it and make the whole earth like the garden.

I think we are supposed to take the authority given to us when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit and do the work Jesus would be doing if he were still here in his body.

I don't think it is, "God please heal ______ today." and God decides if he will or he won't.

I think it is that we are to take authority and do healing the way Jesus did.

It says the the people were all rushing to see the miracles done by the apostles.

It doesn't say the miracles done by God because the apostles asked him to.

I think it is time to take responsibility and get the work done instead of asking God to do things that are not his job.

I think it is our job to expand the Kingdom and God is waiting for us to take the initiative.

Rachel R



Posted by: JeriRose12

Interesting....

I am fasting based on this passage:

18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

(Matthew 17:19 - 20)

Benny Hinn did teaching on the 12 strong men, and infirmity is one of the strong men. The scoliosis, etc. are under that.... so Benny was teaching on which the strong men were, so we could get to the CAUSE of the problem, and not be binding the lesser demons (as in suicide would be under the strong man heaviness). I just keep telling the scoliosis, athritis and so on it much go out with the spirit of infirmity.

I so need to get the mechanics down, and feel free to join me in telling the spirit of infirmity to leave my body. I did a fast on this before, and will do more as the Lord leads. I want to get this victory, so I can continue in future ministry and in marriage without all this pain hindering me.

Any other thoughts and insights appreciated.

Notice the disciples said "Why could WE not cast him out?" And Jesus said, "Nothing shall be impossible unto YOU."

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006 (The Year Of The Double Portion!)


Posted by: sonrise

Rachel you are right in that we need to take the authority over sickness and disease. Scripture is clear that Christ took all manner of sickness and disease to the cross. It is a finished work. We as believers take hold of that truth and with the same authority we are to command it to leave just as Christ did.

Not all sickness and disease will be instantly healed because 80% of all disease is spiritually rooted. Once we get to the root and clear that up the sickness must leave. 3 John 2 ties our health to our soul. So based on the condition of the soul will be what condition our health is in. Proverbs is full of insight to the condition of our health. Example: Envy is rotteness to the bones--osteoporsis (not osteo from menopause).

I always wanted to know why Jesus spat into the dust and then smeared it on the blind man's eyes. I sought for the truth in that scripture. John G. Lakes was given the insight. The man was blind from birth, the creative process was disrupted. We are made from the dust of the earth( our humaness) Christ's spittle--living water. Our humaness+livingwater finished the creative process for his eyes.

So now with that knowledge we know that it isn't just healling required but sometimes the creative process needs to be completed, such as with down syndrome.

I have witnessed many miraculous healings yet I had been bothered by a dear friend whose daughter passed away with down's syndrome. We prayed and believed for Jodie so many times and watched miracle after miracle happpen, yet the hole never healed or the down syndrome left. After her death i could not leave it alone until I read John G. Lakes and we had never addressed the creative process. Scripture says people perish for lack of knowledge and the fervent (effective) prayers availeth much.

I met a man David Hogan. He ministers in Mexico. In order to be an elder in the churches where he resides you must have raised a person from the dead. It is expected of an elder, if the bible says christ did then you will too!! No doubting!!!

A very good teaching on spiritual roots of disease is a book "A More Excellent Way" by Pastor Henry Wright. I use his teaching along with what the Holy Spirit has taught me and I am set free from MS. In ministering we have had people set free from ovarian cancer, bladder cancer and other diseases. I absolutely love seeing the Word of God bring life and liberty!!!
blessings!


Posted by: JeriRose12

I need the answer for arthritis, called degenerative joint disease. I am fasting amd praying for the spirit of infirmity to loose me. There is also scoliosis which underlies the osteo arthritis. Diagnosed with scoliosis in Jr. High, and told you aren't necessarily born with it. It just develops at some point. (Thinking abput it, I realized it developed shortly after I prayed the salvation prayer.)

Had migraines from young age, too.

I don't need to be told to forgive whoever I haven't again. Becauase I have spent hours forgiving everyone I've ever known.... since they say bitterness is the cause of arthitis.

How about the fact that I fell a few times? Or that I over used that part of my body too long? Injuries have brought on tendonitis, which is all a part of this.

I really seek answers and solutions.

Paul wrote to one of the churches and said he knew they wished they could pluck out therir eyes and give them to him. Plus, he indicated that's why he used large hand writing (bad eye sight.) So, if even Paul wasn't healed in this area.... if anyone, you think God would have told him how to get free. It has been said that Paul, the Apostle, was probably closer to God than anyone who lived.

OK, fell today, shoulder stiff, must go rest....


Posted by: kf4qhk

In my opinion, one of the main fallacies of modern day interpretation of Scripture is that thinking that Isaiah 53:5, "by His stripes we are healed" refers to physical healing. Because of the misapplication of that Scripture, everyone expects to be healed. However, we read in the New Testament at least two people that weren't immediately healed. Paul was one of them, in dealing his poor eyesight.

I too, need to grow in the understanding of the authority that is within me. I don't have the authority, but I have The One living inside of me that does. I need to be able to grow in that. It's very possible I need to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Pray for me.

I do believe that there are times that people aren't healed because it's not God's will for them to be healed at that time. I have prayed for dear saints of the Lord along iwht many others, and they still passed away, where they received their ultimate healing.

May we all listen more closely to the voice of the Lord so as we know how to pray.

Jeremy


Posted by: JeriRose12

I looked up the meaning of "healing" in the Hebrew (in the condordance) and it does includde the word "Physician" in there, which leads me to believe it IS physical healing that is referred to by that scritpure. There is the body -- by his stripes we are healed, spirit -- wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, and soul -- the chastisment of our peace was upon Him in that scripture.

But I know that all are not healed, physically, even some who pray and pray. I do not want to say the person is doing something wrong, for that isi condemnation. I have felt that condemnation.... But I do pray for and seek for answers.

After this last fall and taking more pain on my body.... I don't like the thoughts of what my future might hold as I continue to get older and injured more.... I have to keep my mind from dwelling there, or the spirit of fear takes HUGE advantage of that.

I don't want to miss out on anything God has for me. Plus, there are things God has told me I will do, and I don't know how able I will be to do them if this body just keeps wearing out, or degenerating as the chiropractor calls it.

Once God explained to me that I was not ready for my (physical) healing, because He did not just want to heal my physical body, He wanted to INTIGRATE me into TOTAL healing -- emotionally and spiritiually, as well as physically. He seemed to be saying that even if I was helaed, I would not go and do all the things I say the physical infirmity is keeping me from doing. He was telling me He wanted to get me mentally (as in confident enough to pursure the dreams I have or He has given me). These ministry dreams He has given me seem a long time coming, too, so perhaps, I will be healed when I am ready to do them.

Praying on here is part of my ministry, so I am not sure how to take the current and recent bouts with tendonitis and pain that might be that. It could be an attack....in which case, GOD is greater. It could be God testing me....to keep standing for my healing reagradless of what comes. It cuold be God telling me take a rest from here, as I need to rest my arm and had to rest my wrist.... which I am going to go rest my arm now.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006 (The Year Of The Double Portion!)


Posted by: Rachel R

Jeremy, if it doesn't refer to physical healing what does it refer to?

Rachel R


Posted by: kf4qhk

In my opinion, the healing refers to the healing from the stain/sickness of sin, and the emotional issues that come from the result of sin. I believe that this healing is a healing from worry and despair.

I base that upon these pieces of logic:

1. Reading the context of "By His Stripes we are healed" in both I Peter 3 and Isaiah 53 talk more about the implications and consequences of sin, such as guilt, worry, etc etc.
2. If it does refer to physical healing, why are their sick Christians? There are no requirements for this verse to be true, such as faith, sacrifice, or obedience. The "healed" is in past tense, which means it has already been done. I worked at The 700 Club Call Center for eight months, praying with probably an average of 65 people a day. I heard this phrase, exactly once, but a close approximity, many more times:
"I know that by Jesus' stripes I am already healed, but it just hasn't manifested itself yet." In Jesus' healing ministry, nor in the apostolic healings afterwards, we never saw anybody say "wait for the healing to manifest itself."
3. In the book of Acts, when healings did take place, we never see the phrase associated with any of them.
4. Christians still get sick today.
5. Christians still die today.
6. Christians got sick then.
7. If it meant physical healing, surely Paul would have said "because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, now, for the first time, you can have physical healing."
8. People were obviously healed of their sicknesses before this time.


I am kinda tired now, so I didn't go into further details, nor list further reaons, but these are some of the reasons that I believe that physical healing isn't covered by the Atonement.

Any questions, please ask.

Jeremy


Posted by: JG

I just love the way the Holy Spirit likes to teach us on healing.

Matthew Chapter 8 is one of the strongest places in the bible we have for healing.

It starts off with a Leper.
He askes the most important question.
"Jesus is it your will to Heal."
Because Jesus can be no respector of persons he has to answer it Yes or no.

Jesus said for all of us to know it is His will to heal.
Mat 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth [his] hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Now we have a non-Jewish Roman, hated by all.
He has no right to the promises of God.
And yet Jesus heales by the spoken word.


8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it]. 8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, [so] be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.


Now we come to one of the most powerful parts of the bible because it gives commentary on Isa 53 and Ist Pet 3. When the bible gives a clear definition for something in the Old Testament then we must use it as our authouity.

Here again we are not just talking about spiritual condition of emotional conditions. Peters Mother in Law was sick with a fevor and the WORD OF GOD says the was the fullfillment of Isa 53.


Mat 8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. 8:15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them. 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with [his] word, and healed all that were sick: 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.


So we see Jesus
1: wants to heal
2: even the lost
3: He gave us His word on it.

He said go lay hands on the sick and they shall
He did not say seek my will
He said this is my will.
So why are so many asking Him did He mean what he said.

Pastor Jerry


Quote:
Originally Posted by kf4qhk
In my opinion, the healing refers to the healing from the stain/sickness of sin, and the emotional issues that come from the result of sin. I believe that this healing is a healing from worry and despair.

I base that upon these pieces of logic:

1. Reading the context of "By His Stripes we are healed" in both I Peter 3 and Isaiah 53 talk more about the implications and consequences of sin, such as guilt, worry, etc etc.
2. If it does refer to physical healing, why are their sick Christians? There are no requirements for this verse to be true, such as faith, sacrifice, or obedience. The "healed" is in past tense, which means it has already been done. I worked at The 700 Club Call Center for eight months, praying with probably an average of 65 people a day. I heard this phrase, exactly once, but a close approximity, many more times:
"I know that by Jesus' stripes I am already healed, but it just hasn't manifested itself yet." In Jesus' healing ministry, nor in the apostolic healings afterwards, we never saw anybody say "wait for the healing to manifest itself."
3. In the book of Acts, when healings did take place, we never see the phrase associated with any of them.
4. Christians still get sick today.
5. Christians still die today.
6. Christians got sick then.
7. If it meant physical healing, surely Paul would have said "because of Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, now, for the first time, you can have physical healing."
8. People were obviously healed of their sicknesses before this time.


I am kinda tired now, so I didn't go into further details, nor list further reaons, but these are some of the reasons that I believe that physical healing isn't covered by the Atonement.

Any questions, please ask.

Jeremy



Posted by: kf4qhk

Pastor Jerry,

Thank you for your response. I praise the Lord that you are walking in better health now, and that God is healing you. I pray God's annointing on your ministry.

I believe, however, in a somewhat different interpretation of God's will towards healing. I do not believe that it is God's will that everyone be healed, at least in the "here and now," and by that, I refer to this earth and this life. I believe that God brings some, maybe most or even all, illnesses to cause one's relationship with the Lord to grow stronger, or for the someone else with a relationship with the sick person to grow closer to the Lord. When someone is healed, their status, their outlook, their thought process changes. Yes, I believe sometimes God doesn't heal for a lack of faith, but many times the purpose for the sickness hasn't been accomplished yet.

More than praying for the ability for people to be healed, we need to start praying to hear from the Holy Spirit as to why the illness is happening. Regardless if you believe that all sicknesses come from the enemy or not, even if the devil had the ability to cause diabetes to happen, blood pressure to happen, arteries to clog, or kidneys to fail, God still had to authorize it to happen, as He has the ultimate authority. Is God trying to build that person's, or an acquantaince's, faith or dependence on God? Is He trying to teach a lesson in bodily stewardship or another area? Is He proving Himself the Healer so that the unsaved will know that He is the one?


Just my two cents.

Jeremy








Quote:
Originally Posted by JG
I just love the way the Holy Spirit likes to teach us on healing.

Matthew Chapter 8 is one of the strongest places in the bible we have for healing.

It starts off with a Leper.
He askes the most important question.
"Jesus is it your will to Heal."
Because Jesus can be no respector of persons he has to answer it Yes or no.

Jesus said for all of us to know it is His will to heal.
Mat 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth [his] hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


Now we have a non-Jewish Roman, hated by all.
He has no right to the promises of God.
And yet Jesus heales by the spoken word.


8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man], Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it]. 8:10 When Jesus heard [it], he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, [so] be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.


Now we come to one of the most powerful parts of the bible because it gives commentary on Isa 53 and Ist Pet 3. When the bible gives a clear definition for something in the Old Testament then we must use it as our authouity.

Here again we are not just talking about spiritual condition of emotional conditions. Peters Mother in Law was sick with a fevor and the WORD OF GOD says the was the fullfillment of Isa 53.


Mat 8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. 8:15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them. 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with [his] word, and healed all that were sick: 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.


So we see Jesus
1: wants to heal
2: even the lost
3: He gave us His word on it.

He said go lay hands on the sick and they shall
He did not say seek my will
He said this is my will.
So why are so many asking Him did He mean what he said.

Pastor Jerry



Posted by: kf4qhk

To sum up what I just typed, I believe taht God heals on a individual basis, at least here on Earth. We are ultimately healed at the moment of death/rapture.

If it were the will of God for everyone to be healed, why is their sickness?

If it were the will of God for everyone to be healed, why does Scripture only record the one man being healed at Bethesda? Because of the significance of that place, most probably there were many sick there.

Jeremy


Posted by: JG

Dear Jeremy:

Thank you for your openness.
When I try an answer I almost never try and tell what my feelings are
I am interested in what the bible has to say.

You said you do not believe Jesus wants everyone healed.
Do you have any bible verses on that in the New Testament?

That way we are not giving our personal feelings
but examples on what the Lord was teaching.

Almost nine places in the New Testament it says Jesus healed all that came to him.

Jesus Told us to go and pray for the sick to be healed
He never said don't pray because it may not be my will to heal them.

So please help me by showing any verses that say,
Ask the Lord if it is His will for this person to stay sick.

The only examples I can think of were in the old testament where people who sinned on purpose and stepped out of God's protection.
Once they repented they were healed.

Job is an example where the Lord allowed Satan to make a person sick only to bless him twice as much later.

The blind man in John 9 was not blind because of sin or a curse but rather so the miracle could be done later to show God's glory. Satan was stupid enough at the mans birth to ask the Lord to blind him not knowing Jesus would come and heal him.

Again thank you my friend
Pastor Jerry

PS: As long as Satan exists there will be sickness. We are at war and sometimes "My people perish because of lack of knowledge"

Jesus healed only one that day to teach us a lesson.
The word says "we have not because we ask not"
No one at the pool asked to be healed so the Lord was teaching us a lesson.
That is why we are not to go to the hospital and just lay hands on all the people there. Some people just don't want to be healed.

I was asked to go and pray for a man that was in a coma.
They made me sit there for 4 hours.
After the doctors came in and tested him
they said he was brain dead
it was then the wife was allowed to let me in intensive care to pray for him.
They said as soon as I was done they would unplug and let him die.

When I went in I laid hands on his lifeless body
I commanded him to return to his body and quit playing with the angels.
Now please understand the doctors said he was dead.

His body started to shake violently
He then opened his eyes and sat up.
I thought everyone would be happy.

The Doctors ran into the room and pushed me away
and had security escort me out of the hospital.

They said I was disturbing him
I said how can you disturb a dead man.

This was a war
for life and death

I believe Jesus wants life and wants it more abundantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kf4qhk
To sum up what I just typed, I believe that God heals on a individual basis, at least here on Earth. We are ultimately healed at the moment of death/rapture.

If it were the will of God for everyone to be healed, why is their sickness?

If it were the will of God for everyone to be healed, why does Scripture only record the one man being healed at Bethesda? Because of the significance of that place, most probably there were many sick there.

Jeremy



Posted by: Rachel R

"Now I am certain that God treats all people alike." Acts 10:34

When I think of our Father God, I like to step back and look at the overview of who he is and how he does things.

If someone asks me a question about a friend or family member I answer based on all I know about that person, not just one single event or question.

Our Father God deals with each individual and allows them to make their choices. He honors their right to control and allows them to choose whether they want salvation or not.

He set up blessing and cursing (Deut 4) and he allows people to choose.
He set up sowing and reaping. You put in and you get back.
It is up to you.

Father God's job was to set it all up and make and keep it available.

Seedtime and Harvest? Done.
Blessing and Cursing? Done.
Salvation? Done.
Healing and Deliverence? I think it is done.

Just as surely as we reap what we sow,
Just as surely as we choose blessing or cursing, life or death,
Just as surely as we choose to accept the sure gift of salvation,
I think we can trust that healing and deliverence are constantly in force.

I don't think we are to say, "Father God, heal my sickness." when he has already done it long ago.

When Adam and Eve were there in the garden, what got them in trouble was listening to that liar, Satan, and allowing him to 'reason' with them.

Jesus crushed Satan's head with his heal.

Jesus, the second and last Adam, had to do that because Adam didn't.

That gardener should have taken a hoe to that snake.

I have been guilty of 'reasoning' with things that I should have 'crushed the head' of.

I think that anytime we see anything in our garden that is NOT in God's will for us we need to go after it and kill it.

Fear? NO. Worry? NO. Unbelief? NO. 'Did God REALLY say....' NO.

I am trying to speak TO sickness and disease and TELL it to GET OUT OF MY GARDEN.

Jesus did the work and because I am his and he is mine I have a right to the benefits of his accomplishments for me.

Rachel R


Posted by: JG

Dear Rachel:

Thank You my friend
I could not have said it better

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: kf4qhk

Jerry, Rachel, and all the others,

First of all, I rejoice in the fact that although we disagree, we can have unity, as we are bound together in the Family of God! I look forward to the eternity that we can spend together. I also like the fact that we can enjoy fellowship, while still "agreeing to disagree."

All that I have this morning is a response to what Pastor Jerry said regarding John 10. I do not believe that satan asked God to make that man blind. I believe that God, in His full sovereignty, created that man blind, so that Christ would receive glory at that particular time. God wanted to have a relationship with that man more than He wanted him to see. If that man hadn't been born blind, than Christ wouldn't have had the chance to heal him, and to start a relationship. Could it be that sickness has a role in the will of God? I believe so.

I guess I started really thinking this way when I started working for The 700 Club. It was our job to pray for people when they called in with various requests. I sat in a call center with an average of 50-70 other people every day, and at times, I would just sit in my desk, and I would hear others praying between calls. I heard prayers to Almighty God, which should be focused on Him, the worship of Him, the adoration of Him, supplication from Him, asking for forgivness from Him, turn into a prayer that started directed toward God, then be redirected toward Satan, and than redirected back toward God. I think I prayed like that a few times, and I was immediately convicted about that. Prayer time to God is about Him, and Him alone. I should use none of my own personal prayer time to talk to, curse, threaten, or anything else to satan, as I need to stay focused on My Lord.

It is simply my view that many in the church give satan WAY TOO MUCH credit. He's a punk, and while he can do many things, he can't do anything that our Sovereign God won't allow, and that He doesn't have a way of escape, and a direction for us. I Praise His Holy Name!

Thanks for reading.

BTW, as a side note, I do covet your prayers as I am in a time of "transistion" in my life now. I received a word of prophecy last night that told me that some relationships were going to be ending, and that there would be some corresponding pain. Pray that I can keep my eyes focused on what God has for me, and not what I will have lost.

Jeremy


Posted by: JG

Dear Jeremy:

Again thank you for your kind answer.

But again do you have any verses to back up what you said.

Think on these
Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
(notice satan was commanded top leave then the child was healed) God did not make the child sick satan did.


Here again God did not make Peter's Mother in law sick with a fever but rather satan did. Jesus rebuked the fever
Luk 4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her. 4:39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them. 4:40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.


This is just two of many healings Jesus did where he rebuked satan and comanded him to leave the person alone then they were healed.

Do you have any verses that show God made them sick to teach them a lesson?

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: JeriRose12

OK, so I have told the spirit of infirmity to "GO!!!" many times lately.... to get out of my garden. What do I do when the pain is still there? I find myself in prayer for my healing almost more than anything lately. So.... I constantly thank the Lord for my healing, and I do every other things along these lines (including trying to forgive everyone I've ever known) that people advise me to do. So.... I have no plans to give up or quit.... I want that miracle story, and I want to be free of this pain as much as the next guy. It's just.... getting frustrating.

I am going to fast and pray about it again.

Someone fasted and prayed for my niece, who had scoliosis, and then they laid hands on her and prayed, and she is now totally straight. So I am very aware that God heals! And scoliosis is my condition, existing 32 years....

Well, anyway, whatever insight anyone can give me, I can use it.

~JeriRose~
Finding HIM in 2006 (The Year Of The Double Portion!)


Posted by: JG

The Doctor said I was going to die in about 7 weeks.
The Doctor said I may never walk again
The Doctor said I would never be able to step down a stair starting with my right leg.

When I lost the use of my leg nothing worked.
It would not hold me up no matter how hard I tried.

As I prayed I spoke life where there was no life.
It has taken a very long time.
As each day goes by I remind my legs they belong to God
I remind them of the word of God not the symptoms

Is everything perfect
It will be
In time I will be able to run and jump again

How do I know this
It is in the WORD OF GOD.

Thank you for praying for me

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: kf4qhk

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG
Dear Jeremy:

Again thank you for your kind answer.

But again do you have any verses to back up what you said.

Think on these
Mat 17:18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
(notice satan was commanded top leave then the child was healed) God did not make the child sick satan did.


Here again God did not make Peter's Mother in law sick with a fever but rather satan did. Jesus rebuked the fever
Luk 4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her. 4:39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them. 4:40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.


This is just two of many healings Jesus did where he rebuked satan and comanded him to leave the person alone then they were healed.

Do you have any verses that show God made them sick to teach them a lesson?

Pastor Jerry

Pastor Jerry,

I only have a minute, but I submit to you in the passages where it mentions demons being cast out, in additon to sicknesses being healed, that those are different things. Look at the word "also." Not only were sicknesses healed, but ALSO demons were cast out.

I really have a hard time believing that satan can cause physcial ailments. The fact that we live in a fallen world means that germs go around. We abuse our bodies and they wear out after a while. Life happens. Jesus said that "All Authority had been given to Him in heaven and on earth." If, at that time, all the Authority was given to Him, why would satan have the ability to cause physical ailments?


Like I half stated earlier, satan may very well be able to cause physical ailments. But, God IS SOVEREIGN. He has to allow it in order for it to happen.

The only way that I believe that satan can cause these ailments is by working psychosamitcally.

Let me say again, I am not saying that I am 100% right, but this is what I believe.

About the fact of God making someone sick, I am sure we could all name about 10 people without thinking for longer than 30 seconds that, because of their physical ailments, had to depend on the Lord. If they would have never gotten sick, they would have never cried out to Him. Think about the "little old lady" in your life who had a physical ailment, but in the midst of it, she had joy and hope in God. We all have someone like that, and becasue we knew someone who was in that predictament, and still trusted and believed, that helped form our faith.



Jeremy


Posted by: Rachel R

We have the right to choose.

God is always empowering the individual.

He gives us the list of things to choose from and then waits to see our response.

We are also impacted by the choices of the people in our families that have gone before us because any curse is allowed to go on for four generations.

That is why we are empowered to break the curse and replace it with blessing.

Sickness and disease is under the curse. (Deuteronomy)

Jesus never made anyone sick to help them.

But he sure drew crowds by making them well.

That gave him the perfect platform to tell them the good news.

The good news was that they had the right to choose.

Rachel R



Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by kf4qhk
Pastor Jerry,

I really have a hard time believing that satan can cause physcial ailments.

Like I half stated earlier, satan may very well be able to cause physical ailments. But, God IS SOVEREIGN. He has to allow it in order for it to happen.

The only way that I believe that satan can cause these ailments is by working psychosamitcally.

Jeremy



Dear Jeremy:

Again let's look at what the word has to say.
In Luke 13 we have a woman who was sick for 18 years.
The Holy Spirit very clearly says
"Satan made her sick"

This was a form of Rheumatoid Arthritis. By the way it takes 18 years before the doctors say it is finished. The world would say this is natural. God says a demon, a evil spirit of infirmity caused it.

Luk 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up [herself]. 13:12 And when Jesus saw her, he called [her to him], and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. 13:13 And he laid [his] hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. ......... 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

So we see it was Satan that made the woman sick and had kept the woman sick for 18 years.

Tell me what you think because Jesus himself said satan made her sick.

Isn't the word of God so beautiful
it always has a place to show us the way.

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: kf4qhk

Pastor Jerry,

I am being enlightened and educated these days, and I thank you for your patience in dealing with me.

Let me summarize my two points on the origin of sickness with these two questions/comments...

1. If satan can cause physical illness, which apparently, Scripture shows he can, what about God's sovereignity? God still knows and allows this to take place, and His desire is to get glory out of it. That is the beneficial side of ailments.

2. I still believe that when the Lord stated that He now had all authority in heaven and earth, that meant something, and I believe it relates to this subject. Call me a dispensationalist if you wish, (I am not really sure about the entire definition of dispensationalism, but I know that dispy's believe in different "eras" of time with God,) but God "changed the playing field" after the resurrection.

Thanks again for this debate. I love waht you have done here, and I pray for God to continue to bless your ministry. You ever planning on coming to Alabama/Tennessee to preach?

Jeremy


Posted by: Rachel R

It is true, God is a sovereign God and can do anything he wants anyway he wants BUT he set up limitations for himself in the word.

He put in covenants, laws, blessing and cursing, seed and harvest etc. and he will not go against his word.

God placed the choices within man's reach and then acts accordingly.

God obeys his own word.

He said to choose, and people choose whether they are aware of it or not.

Awareness is not the basis of law. Laws are in force.

You can be arrested, tried and punished for disobeying a law you were unaware of.

When sin occurs, sickness and many other negative things come on the people.

I really believe that all the laws that God laid down were protective.

He wasn't just arbitrarily trying to control or inconvenience them in a power play.

He was trying to show them the best, the safest, and the most efficient way to form and maintain a local society.

He was giving the boundaries that keep you and everyone else safe and secure.

When Jesus came and took back the authority he didn't give it to Father God or keep it for himself, he gave it to US.

The last Adam returned it to the current Adam's to use to get back to the building of the garden God originally intended.

Our job is to build the Kingdom, and God's job is to enforce our authority as we use it.

If we walk off and refuse to take up the authority, he has to leave us out there until we get it together.

Those are the rules God set up and he obeys them.

Jesus did shorten the list to make it easier for us to stay within the guidelines.

Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength.

Love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.

Pretty simple.

But the burden here is not on God.

The burden is on man.

God's choices are made and his work is done.

God is sitting on the throne and Jesus is seated ('It is finished.') at God's right hand.

Jesus' only work is to hear our words and give them to the Father.

We pray 'in Jesus' name' so that our prayers are heard by God.

The playing field is changed.

Before Jesus only the priest could get to God in the Holy of Holies, but God in an act of power, tore that curtain in the Temple from the top to the bottom and now we can go BOLDLY to the throne of grace.

God obeys his word.

Jesus obeyed God.

We choose whether to accept what Jesus offers.

We choose whether to stay in the safe zone or get out there on our own.

Rachel R


Posted by: Shawn

Oh how I wish and pray everyone understood what you just said.

The responsibility and authority has been given back to us.

Now we must learn through the WORD and FAITH how this works.

Thank you again Rachel for your kind words


Posted by: kf4qhk

The verse says that "We ARE healed." The tense of that verb states that is as already happened. There is no condition of faith or any other thing on that verse. It is stated that WE ARE HEALED!

Why are there sick Christians?

I am not trying to cause any division, but I am trying to rightly divide the Word of Truth.

Jeremy