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I don't do church..Churchianity vs Christianity. The GREAT DECEPTION!

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Posted by: rod0

Dear Brothers and Sisters


This is not meant to offend. But I must be true to my heart, the great deception is spiritual. I believe many are lulled into thinking they are OF THE Church when in fact they are just religious. They are not the ECKLESIA, they are pretenders.

This may be without awareness, and they mean no harm, I do not fault them, it is part of the GREAT plan. Yet by God’s mercy the TRUE ECKLESIA, must know, THEY are in your midst.

How do we obey the command of Paul to not forsake the gathering to together of yourselfs? The command denotes who you are to gather with, we are not talking about perfect and imperfect, we are talking about true and false brethren.

So if you stare at the back of someone’s head for an hour or two, going thru the motions of some ritual we call CHURCH, and they have not been BORN AGAIN via a TRUE encounter with Jesus you have disobeyed Paul’s command.

True encounters can and most likely are without your consent. Being born again, is not an agreement with doctrines nor does it have anything to do with going forward at a RELIGIOUS MEETING…though it can occur when you go forward at a meeting, but does not have anything to do with mental assent to a bunch of religious dogmatic theories…

To be known of HIM, and to be noticed by others, as the Pharisees noticed the disciples “had been with Jesus”, takes a spiritual encounter.

The TRUE ECKLESIA, for the sake and mercy of God, (Mercy to the unbeliever before judgment) must be revealed, they cannot stay amongst and hidden with the false church system (People who don’t know him).

These people can appear to be, no I take that back, they can be better than you…

Better than you at:

Scripture reading;

Prayer;

Fasting;

Church attendance;

Feeding the poor;

Being patient;

Being kind;

ETC: WHY / HOW: Because it is flesh, covered by religiosity.

Self will do anything to continue to live;


1).How do you describe this LIFE? As a Christian it's hard to do. As I recall moments in my own life, I think of times of stillness, in the midst of activity or in the quiet of night. The presence of His Spirit was there, sometimes speaking other times He was silent, yet the undeniable presence of His Spirit was so real. You couldn't describe it too anyone else, sometimes he was so near, almost physical, at other times He was, just felt, deep in your heart.

I could at times think, and He would answer. Sometimes the answer was spoken, and at other times it was a still small voice in my heart.

Sometimes I would see a person, and while looking at them, I knew about them.

I recall the passion to tell others about him at any given moment, looking for such an occasion never caring where I was, or who was near by.

Constantly His Love moved over me in waves and yet it abode, never departing. I would wake up in the middle of the night and He was there, like a mother hen.

I remember the love for others that was not my own. I remember feeling, and being, separate from the world yet still in its midst.

I recall not worrying about the kind of car I drove, or the condition of my clothes, knowing that He was fully aware of all these things.

I recall being invited out for dinner with brothers, and thinking (silently between myself and God), "Lord I don't have any money, but I'm hungry" and then someone would say "hey rod I'll buy ok?" Do you have days like this?

Do you remember days like this from your past? I believe this is something no one can take from us. This is why WE MUST EXPERIENCE GOD! Experiencing God is more important than the scriptures! You see if you experience HIM then, Bible revelation can be added to you. But if you don't experience HIM first then Bible knowledge is just a compilation of facts, they are true, but they don't have any place of reference, without HIM.

2).Most of my life, at least as far back as I can remember I've had a desire and love for God/Jesus. As I've grown older, I've seen many things in "Christendom", I've seen communes (come and go in failure). I've seen myself and other brothers walk in their own ways (you might call it backsliding), I've been hurt by supposed brothers in Christ, I've seen TV preachers act cocky, and ridiculous, I've seen people chase tithes and money, I've seen people in big churches (faithful tithers) go without help while in need, I've seen people chase their own kingdom and building programs. I've seen people pretend to prophecy, knowing they were not HEARING from HIM, (and in failure, excuse themselves by saying they were practicing), I've seen names in lights (but not Jesus name). I've seen people destroyed by the sheparding movement. I've seen men of god after devoting their lives to "the ministry" destroyed after a single mistake, instead of forgiven. On and on I could go... So does any of the above remind you of the book of acts or the first group of believers?

This is why I believe we must have and will have change. God is not interested in a "body" with spot or wrinkle. As I searched different churches, communities, and internet sites, I've come across a hand full of people that have the essence/smell of life and others who are just religious (relating to God only in their learning and mind), yet I yearn for true brethren and their fellowship, realizing that only God can cause these people to be gathered together and revealed to one another, and have them be in accord with one mind. Jesus may give the gift of eternal life to some, that's His prerogative, but to say all people have the same "experience/fellowship/love relationship" with Jesus or each other is not correct. We see the difference in people (John, Peter, Paul) and we see the same differences thru-out time, we see times of revival (1900's, 1940's, 1970's) and in each of these times we see tare and wheat together. We see a time of purity and passion then a colder period, where men's hearts seem to grow cold, and God becomes a forgotten memory.

In contrast we never see this in churches, they are always attended by praying people, people arguing scriptures and doctrine, yet hardly ever displaying life as we see in the same revival periods. Yes I believe mercy, calls for a move of God again.

3).One more reason, I believe we need change is because the gospel needs to be preached. We believe the gospel has been preached, from the generosity of America, but I think this is only true in very narrow windows of time (revival 1900's, 1940's, 1970's etc) and only by certain persons (who knew HIM). Then of course there is the occasional believer who is submitted to the (breathings) of the Spirit, this believer shares out of the reservoir of undeniable life (the fellowship between this believer and the Spirit). This bears fruit since it’s not just a message of words but is accompanied by this fellowship and life. The preaching of the gospel by religious folks just doesn't work! How could it, they are not ambassadors of the very Spirit, since they refuse to give up their life thru that act of ultimate (life giving) which is the "surrender of self". The first century church in the New Testament turned the word upside down in a short time NOT because of their words alone but because of the LIFE residing IN them. This was a spirit thing...NOT a mental thing, it wasn't an agreement with certain doctrines or creeds, it wasn't from arguing the scriptures, it wasn't from forming a new church or denomination, they had and were living LIFE like Jesus 24/7 every moment of each day, a life of submission, pleasing the father, a life defined by others as "seeing they had been with Jesus". Being in his presence and service, is the key, Paul called this being a love slave, a life like Paul's multiplied thousands of times over will "again" cause the world to SEE and HEAR the TRUE gospel.

4). In the 1860's 1900's 1940's 1960's we saw the beginning of several moves of God upon people who were desperate to know HIM. They found the one they were seeking for.

Then shortly after in each time period, (even in the new testament) we see charlatans, hirelings move in among the sheep of God, these men who really don't know the master teach doctrines not from revelation via an intimate relationship. But from the minds of others who were also like themselves, who teach only from the tree of knowledge: From the mind of one man to the mind of another, thereby polluting the little sheep and convincing others, because the so-called doctrines of men are believed by the masses also.

This is such a subtle thing that it can inhibit your walk, because you’re not discipled but instead taught by men who have never had an intimate walk with God. So as believers we must know Him and find revelation that agrees with the scriptures, and or that changes our understanding of the scriptures.

5). I often wonder how these spiritual things work...It's hard to find answers sometimes since we are mortal. And often IF you are like me, its hard to keep on believing that God can find a good reason to go on loving me...

But as I look back...I see of course some differences, the late 60's thru the mid 70's were a move of god, especially for the young...We always see (under an anointing) god doing unusual graceful things in the lives of people...Then it tapers off...Probably so as not too be common and taken for granted by us.

So where does an experience in God begin? I have to believe (and remember I'm limited by my mortality and limited knowledge so I could be wrong), it starts with God putting a hunger in your heart....Now if that hunger exists, and it sounds as though it does, for you sound like a seeker...then

I would approach God in a simple fashion, (for me it was doing the only thing I knew to do, I went to the Library to research books about religion and god). then shortly after I prayed with Gary (see testimony) I just knew in my heart that god wanted my whole life, every thought belonged to him, SO I just started with my thoughts, if I had a thought that came into my mind and it said "give that person a bible" or "tell that person that you are a Christian and that you will be praying for them" then I would obey....

One day I told a Christian brother about this (thought stuff) and how I judged my thoughts by the little knowledge I had of the bible, and if my thoughts were agreeable (good things vs. evil) then I would obey... This brother told me too keep on obeying those thoughts as long as they agreed with scripture, and as I did then the thoughts would go from just thoughts, too the voice of the Lord, (my sheep know my voice) (sheep follow-they are surrendered to their master), well just as this brother said, it did indeed happen that way for me...So seek HIM and if you can do today, what I can't seem to do (surrender with all your heart)...I'm sure you will meet HIM, maybe in a different experience, but never the less I'm sure His goal will be the same...To possess your whole heart.

6). A Christian historian tells a true story about a peasant in the 1600's living under the rule of the catholic church. The peasant is working the field an a cardinal and his procession go by, as they approach the cardinal speaks to the peasant, about a new edict from Rome. The cardinal quotes a verse of scripture, the peasant replies that the cardinal quoted the verse incorrectly. The cardinal says to the peasant "How would you know, being you are unlearned and illiterate ?" The peasant replies: "because the spirit IN ME said you quoted it wrong"!

How true this is, if we only have the book and don't hear that still small voice on the inside, from the throne of our heart the center of HIS kingdom! Then I fear we miss the most important piece of intimacy, yet HIS Word and HIS scriptures work together, one a current guide for us THE NOW and the other, which can still speak but was spoken to another hundreds of years ago, serves as a foundation. But We live by breath, and the words that proceed from the mouth of God, "My sheep know my voice" "for those who are sons of God are led of the spirit of God".


Posted by: eagle4him

I hear a pastor say one time, "If you find a perfect church, don't join it--you'll just spoil it"

Churches are full of imperfect people led by imperfect peoole. I don't agree with a lot of the religious stuff myself, but the church was Jesus's idea in the first place.

Besides, there is protection in the flock! Separate from the flock, and the wolves get a free run at you.


Posted by: BrendaMagana

What exactly did you want to say?


Posted by: JeriRose12

(Coincidence that I was thinking of this post today?)

19Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

7Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

2On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. (1 Corinthians 16:2)

19And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. (2 Peter 1:19 - 21)


It seems, that "having boldness to enter into the Holiset place by the blood of Jesus" and to "draw near with a true heart full of assurance and faith", and so that we may "consider one another in order to stir p love and good works," we are to attend a church -- NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER.... so much more as we see the day approaching. If judgement and the great and terrible day of the Lord is really coming, we had better stay connected with a body of believers so we can be encouraged to keep right with Jesus so we don't miss His return.

In other words, they assembled or gathered or went to church regularly. And Peter said that ALL scripture is Holy Spirit inspired. So, the Holy Spirit is not going to go against Himself and tell you not to go to church.
In Revelation Jesus wrote TO the churches and He never once said withdraw from the churches. He said that the churches needed to repent and get right in certain areas, but he DID NOT say to forsake the church just because they needed to repent. Jesus always works THJROUGH and IN the churches.

Just before my brother-in-law went into this cult, he was disallusioned with the church. They just weren't giving him enough God, etc. Now, he believes in reincarnation, no literal hell, that we are in "the harlot church," that Satan is our Lord and a lot of other herasy. He preaches "the Spirit of truth," not meaning the Holy Spirit. He has added A LOT of sutff on to the Bible, that just ins't there.

If we error by saying we don't need church, which all through the the New Testement, there were established churches that the epistles were written to and shared between, then where might we error next? It is a silippery slope. And, any time, I see a "truth" being promoted that goes against the Bible HUGE warning bells go off.

I tried staying home one Sunday to seek God, but He convicted me of it, and I missed church. I missed singing praises to God with other believers and feeling His Presence there and hearing the sermon that encourages me to obey the Holy Spirit and live right. I can seek God the other six days of the week, so why can't I go Sunday to seek Him with other believers? I NEED this, and so much more as I see the day approaching! I can find God in any church -- even a "dead" one. It is ME, not the church. If I am really looking for Him, I can find Him ANYWHERE.

Church IS NOT bad. Those minsiters are put there to equip the saints. We MUST be under the authority of an earthly father or mother. It can seem like "organized religion," but it is IN THE BIBLE. Sure, there are problems, and it isn't perfect in ANY church (if I go there it sure won't be!). But it had to be Jesus who established this, because how else did the desciples know what to do? And they met together regulary.

It says all things must be done "decently and in order." Why when anyone tries to have a little structure does everyone say we are quenching the Holy Spirit? Hey, I say it myself. But it says plainly that all things must be done decently and in order in our church services. (1 Corinthians 14:40). Why was all this even written about our conduct in church services, if we are not supposed to go to church? The Holy Spirit is not going to tell us so many years later the church was a bad idea so leave it, when He has worked through the church from the day Jesus ascended into heaven.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: Christian Commando

rod0-

Very interesting, except you forgot, Jesus Christ went to visit with the unsaved in thier homes when invited there. He dealt personally with as many if not more unsaved than saved people in His ministry.

Churches are here for the unsaved to come and find God during the gathring of the saints in praise and worship of God and Christ. Churches are here for all aspects of both fulfilling the saving of souls and for the feeding of Christ's Flock and the edification of the "Body of Christ".

You appear to have a narrowed view of what the Church building as a gathering place for God's children, probably from one or more bad experiences with them. But, realize, those who are blinded must have a way to have those blinders taken off. I would suggest changing your view of going to Church, as a mission to help those blinded to see the Truth of God instead of maligning the established form of gathering of the saints.

I'm not offended and pray I haven't offended you either, but, God showed me instead of being critical of the situation, turn it around as an oportunity for me to be God's vessel in helping the blind to see God's Truth as He leads me to.

Try that aspect for viewing the Church and you may find reason to go back. Don't reject the part of the "Body of Christ" that does go to churches just because some unsaved are mislead to believe they are God's Children by works.

I pray this helps- God Bless!!


Posted by: JeriRose12

In fact, today's sermon was on the lost sheep and the lost coin. The upshot: the reason for this parable was that the Pharisees were accusing Jesus of hanging with sinners. It would be like Jesus hanging out with abortionists, terrorists, drug dealers and pedaphiles in our day. We would be asking why He did this, not realizing He came to seek and to save the lost.

There is a scripture where Jesus told the disciples exactly how to deal with matters of discipline within the church, when a brother/sister continues in unrepentant sin (Matthew 18:15 - 19). At the end of this it says that if two or three agree as touching anything....whatever they bind will be bound, whatever they loose will be loosed. If you read this in context, it seems to be referring to loosing or binding a brother/sister to the church body, not what we loose or bind in prayer. No-one has ever taken it this way, but the context of the agreeing is in the context of disciplining a fellow believer who you confront with sin and they refuse to repent of it.

I went to a church that dealt with sin in this matter, and, as much as possible, anyone who claimed to be saved, who would not stop sinning, was disfellowshipped until they repented. This is Bible, and this it what Jesus insitgated, knowing the church would have problems. This is further confirmed in Corinthians where Paul told them to follow these very instructions in dealing with an incest case in that church (1 Corinthians 5:1 - 4). Also, it's confirmed in the scripture that says we should not even eat a meal with a brother/sister who is a drunk, fornicator....and so on. (1 Corninthians 5:9 - 11). So, if Jesus laid this out to his disciples before the churches were started, is it not clear that the church(es) was (were) Jesus plan?

~JeriRose~


Posted by: rod0

YOU SAID: (In red)... Paraphrased...copied your text below...answer follows..

body of believers; ourselves; one another

Churches are full of imperfect people led by imperfect peoole. I don't agree with a lot of the religious stuff myself, but the church was Jesus's idea in the first place.

unsaved need a place to be saved...

You missed my point: I agree with all of you, as most of you quoted "typed" scripture...AS I STATED (If you read it carefully, this is not about perfect/ imperfect)...Sure Jesus sat with the sinner, He had a problem with the religious…Who are the Pharisees today? None other than the SO-CALLED church…Do I hate these people, no of course not, we are to love all. Actually it is a system, the religious killed Jesus, and will persecute you, since you are Jesus today…i.e. his physical body was here once, now it is here again, yet in us…Who are these that are referenced to as: (the body, ourselves, one another)... (See this term; sunagoge: a body excluding all others distinct from the world)These are the Ecklesia, not unsaved or church goers...this has nothing to do with me having a bad experience...Nor does it have to do with being exclusionary, biased, prejudiced.

Yet where does it say, go to a building, were there will be a mixture of saved and unsaved? Do you recall the text that says "they were afraid to join themselves..." and how are we "in one accord..." with those who the master does not know? Go and make disciples? How?

All these things are spiritual and of God's doing and choice.



Ok must stop, type two fingers, it’s very slow…

Hope you see my hearts intent, this is not to argue, or be disagreeable, or call names, or separate in a hateful way….We “you and me”, hopefully write as Paul did “to the church”, and to no other.

JESUS SAYS, “FOR IT IS GIVEN UNTO YOU TO KNOW”…. “WHO”… HIS CHURCH!


Posted by: JeriRose12

We all know that churhces aer not perfect. We all know that the church had it's equal to pharisees. But what I have seen is some people who seperate from the church, and they end up swallowing a lot of stuff that is not scriptural. The reason for church is so we can go there and learn the TRUTH of God's Word. One of The Truths of God's Word is that we are told not to forsakek the assembling of ourselves toegether....so much more as the day approaches....and for the purpose of stirring each other up to love and good works. The church was Jesus idea. The temple was God's idea. Both have had those who abuse power. God never said to do away with the temple and preist system (until Jesus came) just becasue some priests were off. And He didn't say to quit having churches, because some ministers are off. These ideas originated with God, because He knew we needed each other to be encouraged in our walk with God.

I thought that our words were to be edifying to the hearer, and I do not find this edifying. All it seems to do is find fault and criticize.

I was looking for the reference on how our speech should edify, and I found all of these (not just the one I had in mind):

Romans 14:19
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

1 Corinthians 10:23
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

1 Corinthians 14:5
I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

2 Corinthians 12:19
Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying.

Ephesians 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:16
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

1 Thessalonians 5:11
Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1 Timothy 1:4
Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

I did not mean to be shouting, by making them so big and brigght....but I am celebrating how wonderful God's Word is. He knows that we will do so much better in becoming Christ-like in an encouraging enviorment rather than in one where the sheep are beat. (I have been to both kinds, so I know from personal experience which one a Christian thrives in). I also find it interesting that these scriiptures were written to THECHURCH. Some of these are direct instructions on how a church service was supposed to be ordered.

(OK, I was going to say so much more, but will quit).

No, this is not an 'us or you" issue for me, either. It's about TRUTH. The Truth is that Jesus instigated the church, and that means He wants us to be part of it.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: rod0

Brother I agree, still we find ourselves on a seperate path, but close. Your still not seeing my point...

How do I know? Well based upon your reply, when I read the reply, I agree, yet find my self asking what it has to do with my post?

I say the whole system is dangerous for the saved and unsaved, leaving them a false hope, in a system...A system where Jesus is on the out side looking in ...knocking on the door...A system made by a sower who came behind Jesus..


Posted by: rod0

***right there on Diezengoff Street in Tel Aviv! (Now thats conversion)

Many Will Be Raptured Out of Israel
Matthew Schwartz, a Messianic Jewish leader, brought a group of tourists to Israel because he had a burden to pray. Speaking at The Cornerstone World Outreach Center in Springfield, MO., he told an amazing experience that happened while his group was in Tel Aviv.

Matthew and his group were marching down the streets of Tel Aviv in parade-like fashion. They were singing choruses and encouraging people.

While passing a store, the owner, a 72-year-old man named Moshe, came out to talk to them. He told this amazing story:

"My wife and I moved here to Israel years ago because we wanted to be here when the Messiah came. We are waiting for His coming.

"I have been having a recurring dream the last three months, and it is disturbing me, because I keep having this same dream over and over again. I have been to the Rabbis; I have talked to four or five of them, and none of them can interpret my dream. Can you help me? Can you explain it to me, and tell me what it means?"

Pastor Lane, who was a part of the group answered him, "I don't know if I can; but let me hear your dream."

He called Brother Matthew over and five or six others joined them, to listen to the story about the old man's dream.

"I keep dreaming that I am awakened up from sleep, in my bed, in the middle of the night. I dream that trumpets are sounding, and I run to the front door and look out, and thousands of people from the nation of Israel are going up through the clouds, and they are wearing white robes, and the heavens are parting, and the Angel Gabriel is standing in the heavens, blowing a trumpet. And there is a rider on a white horse, with thousands of armies behind him. The man on the horse is 'The Conqueror.' I have had this dream about twenty times in the last ninety days. I told my wife, 'I see a man on a white horse.'"

He had never read the New Testament. But he knew the Old Testament; and he knew that there are two archangels. He knew one is the Angel Gabriel.

He said, "No one understands it. I told my wife, the rabbis and the people in the store, but no one can interpret it."

Brother Lane, Matthew and the others opened the New Testament and read to him from 1 Thessalonians, chapter 4, "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

When the old man heard it, he exclaimed excitedly, "That is my dream!"

When they explained to him that The Conqueror was Yeshua, his Messiah, he began to cry. They asked him, "Do you want to ask Jesus Christ to come into your life?"

He said, "Yes." And right there on the street…he was born again. Then they prayed for him and he was baptized with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues…right there on Diezengoff Street in Tel Aviv!




http://www.jesusvisions*****/index.html


Posted by: JeriRose12

What does it have to do with your post? It is a reply to your long bash on the church or churches (the smaller groups being part of the bigger whole) based on The Truth of scripture.

The church IS NOT a system. The church is PEOPLE.

Jesus is the Head of the chruch; He is not on the outside looking in!

Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.

Jesus established and set up the chruch, and the church(es) is what He works through. If you read scripture there is no other name or group mentionted. It is "To the Church at Corinth," or "The churches in the Province of Asia" and so on that the apostles write.

The governement handing out money is a system, as in "working the system." When the churches (as mine does) feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit the sick, visit the prisoners....THAT is what the church is all about. THAT is not a system. That is pure religion and undefiled before God (James 1:27).

The bottom line for me is: What does the Bible say? Scripture is our final authority on EVERYTHING; it contains ALL Truth. There are 111 refreences to "'church" or "churches" in the Bible.

I see your point is that you are trying to seperate the "system" form the church. But that is a lot like trying to seperate the tares from the wheat. Innocent people get hurt in the process. In the parabel the man was told to leave the tares alone, or the wheat would get pulled up, too.

And since Jesus is the Head of the church, I see no way we can seperate him from the church, either. If the "system" creeps in, Jesus will still be here trying to get us right with Him.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: JeriRose12

That is an awesome story. Beautiful. We are told to go into all the world and preache the Gospel. It doesn't say we should expect them to come into the church. After they are saved, though, they need to find a church that preaches the pure Word of God. OK, if you don't like the word "chruch," some group of believers who they can grow in Christ with. The problem with folks who braek off from what you would call "the chruch system" or "the organized church" is that they get their own system going. Somehwere along the way, an organized feel comes into their group. So, I just keep it Biblical. I call it "church," because that's what Jesus and the disciples called it. Why call it something else in attempt to get away from the "system," then end up in a system of their own?

I haven't seen anything good come into the lives of those who broke off from the church, because it wasn't full enough of God. Maybe there are some people out there who don't represent Christ as they should (the church is the people), but the people I know who are the strongest Christians are those who faithfully, regularly attend church....not meaning the building, but the gathering with other believers. I have never seen anyone who closes themselves off from other sheep grow into a mature sheep.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: rod0

Well once again, you miss me by a mile. Nothing like being loaded for bear and shooting a duck!

No bashing here. Read the first post over...

Your right the church is a group of people, but possibly not all people who think they are the church truly are. So who is doing them a disservice, me or you?

I will have to concede we disagree, but it’s because you can't see or don't want to see my point, instead your defensive, accusing me of bashing...lol. That’s funny. The tones of the responses are very much like people defending their religion?

I'm done...can only explain this so many ways.


Posted by: JeriRose12

Where are the scriptural references to back up "your point"?

Therein lies the problem.

I am not interested in "your point."

I am insterested in GOD'S POINT .

God's point is that He put the church body their to edify us in The Lord.

If God has 111 reference to the church or churches in His Book, then, maybe the church is HIS idea.

I, too, am letting it rest, because I know what THE BIBLE says (I am not interested in what man says).

I have stated BIBLE TRUTH as clearly as I can. That's all I have to stand on.

And I have seen the truth of our need for church reflected in the lives of those who refused to get committed to a church body: out of all the people I know who quit attending church, only one is still serving The Lord.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: MamaCat

I believe the misunderstanding here is in what is THE CHURCH.

It is NOT a building.
It is NOT organized religion.
It is NOT religious programs.
It is NOT religious services.
It is NOT religious rituals.
It is NOT religious duties.
It is NOT religious works.

It IS the BODY of CHRIST.

The "church" services we see today in America and other parts of the world are mostly traditions of men and have little in common with New Testament Christianity. Of course, the Lord can manifest His power and glory in these services if He is welcome. He made a donkey speak....all things are possible with God!

The Bible says to gather together with the other saints regularly. That can be on Sunday morning in a building or any day of the week at someone's house or in the park! People can be born again anywhere anytime. Groups of saints who meet regularly outside the 'regular' 'church' services are totally capable of learning, teaching, sharing, praying, evangelising and growing in Christ. Probably more so than sitting in a pew listening to a pastor! It's also totally possible to sit in a 'church' pew and rot until you're a dusty corpse.

The bottom line is....do you KNOW Him????


Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Well once again, you miss me by a mile. Nothing like being loaded for bear and shooting a duck!

No bashing here. Read the first post over...

Your right the church is a group of people, but possibly not all people who think they are the church truly are. So who is doing them a disservice, me or you?

I will have to concede we disagree, but it’s because you can't see or don't want to see my point, instead your defensive, accusing me of bashing...lol. That’s funny. The tones of the responses are very much like people defending their religion?

I'm done...can only explain this so many ways.






My Dear Friend:

Please do not get upset when others do no see your point.

A wise man once said
it is not what you say
it is not what you think you said
it is not what you think you meant to say
it is not what you wanted to say

None of that matters

The only things that matters is

What did the other person think you say


For that is what is being understood.


My Friend you make some good points
But I fear for you because

You point out some problems
but
You do not provide the solutions.

How do you Become part of the solution to the problem

Anyone can point out the spot on the wall

Who will fix the spot
Now that is the question.

Why don't you start a place that has the answers.
Why don't you show us how to do it instead of just
pointing out the obvious mistakes.

There are millions of people around the world who are trying to help with the answers.

So at the last judgement they will be able to look at Jesus and say I did my part.

What part are you willing to do my friend instead of complain.

Where is your prayer group.
Where is your helping center
Where is your learning center

How may hours a day, week or month are you investing
teaching
feeding
clothing
helping
those who can't help themselves.

WORDS WORDS WORDS
TALK TALK TALK

Where is the beef my friend.
Then we would join you in a chorus of praise and thank you

Millions upon millions of dollars a week flow from the churches around the country to help people pay the rent buy food or pay utilities.

According to the US Gov statistics over $84,000,000 is donated by the local churches each month in some kind of benevolence giving.

That comes to almost 1,000,000 people each month that are touched by some kind of love or mercy.

So when we complain about the few who fall through the cracks well do you think maybe Jesus let them fall for some reason.

Pastors helping others who need a helping hand what a miracle.

So my point is my friend.
PRAISE THE LORD for the local church.
PRAISE THE LORD for the local body of Christ

PRAISE THE LORD for those who find the time each week to give a day or two or three to the Lord.

Now what do you want to replace it with

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: rod0

NOW where did you gather that I was upset?

Just being honest.

Please read my post and respond to what I say..

This is my desire to have you respond to what I wrote..

not to have you inject or read something (totally different) into my post...

Bless you...meant no harm..


I have a famous saying from a wise man too....

"say what you mean and mean what you say"


Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
NOW where did you gather that I was upset? Just being honest. Please read my post and respond to what I say.. This is my desire to have you respond to what I wrote.. not to have you inject or read something (totally different) into my post..."


Dear Rod:

You asked for it so here it is.
Word for word response to you post

Pastor Jerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Dear Brothers and Sisters
This is not meant to offend. But I must be true to my heart, the great deception is spiritual. I believe many are lulled into thinking they are OF THE Church when in fact they are just religious. They are not the ECKLESIA, they are pretenders.
This is not true, you really do not care if it offends. You knew it would offend that is why you said "it is not meant ot offend...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
This may be without awareness, and they mean no harm, I do not fault them, it is part of the GREAT plan. Yet by God’s mercy the TRUE ECKLESIA, must know, THEY are in your midst.

How do we obey the command of Paul to not forsake the gathering to together of yourselfs? The command denotes who you are to gather with, we are not talking about perfect and imperfect, we are talking about true and false brethren.
That is not true again... you said I do not fault them... In fact this whole letter finds fault with those you do not agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
So if you stare at the back of someone’s head for an hour or two, going thru the motions of some ritual we call CHURCH, and they have not been BORN AGAIN via a TRUE encounter with Jesus you have disobeyed Paul’s command.
ouch Oh how that hurts so many. to broad brush so many millions of believers by saying they are going through a ritual and are going to hell.. Oh what judgement on so many who love Jesus so much.

Wow you say they are not saved. Who gave you the right to make such a judgement on so many millions of people.

To pass judgement on the Holy Spirit by saying he would allow such a deception to continue.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
True encounters can and most likely are without your consent. Being born again, is not an agreement with doctrines nor does it have anything to do with going forward at a RELIGIOUS MEETING…though it can occur when you go forward at a meeting, but does not have anything to do with mental assent to a bunch of religious dogmatic theories…

That is true my friend but who said that is what is happening in every church

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
To be known of HIM, and to be noticed by others, as the Pharisees noticed the disciples “had been with Jesus”, takes a spiritual encounter.
TRUE

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
The TRUE ECKLESIA, for the sake and mercy of God, (Mercy to the unbeliever before judgment) must be revealed, they cannot stay amongst and hidden with the false church system (People who don’t know him).

These people can appear to be, no I take that back, they can be better than you…

Better than you at:

Scripture reading;

Prayer;

Fasting;

Church attendance;

Feeding the poor;

Being patient;

Being kind;

ETC: WHY / HOW: Because it is flesh, covered by religiosity.

Self will do anything to continue to live;

What's your point


Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
1).How do you describe this LIFE? As a Christian it's hard to do. As I recall moments in my own life, I think of times of stillness, in the midst of activity or in the quiet of night. The presence of His Spirit was there, sometimes speaking other times He was silent, yet the undeniable presence of His Spirit was so real. You couldn't describe it too anyone else, sometimes he was so near, almost physical, at other times He was, just felt, deep in your heart.

I could at times think, and He would answer. Sometimes the answer was spoken, and at other times it was a still small voice in my heart.

Sometimes I would see a person, and while looking at them, I knew about them.

I recall the passion to tell others about him at any given moment, looking for such an occasion never caring where I was, or who was near by.

Constantly His Love moved over me in waves and yet it abode, never departing. I would wake up in the middle of the night and He was there, like a mother hen.

I remember the love for others that was not my own. I remember feeling, and being, separate from the world yet still in its midst.

I recall not worrying about the kind of car I drove, or the condition of my clothes, knowing that He was fully aware of all these things.

I recall being invited out for dinner with brothers, and thinking (silently between myself and God), "Lord I don't have any money, but I'm hungry" and then someone would say "hey rod I'll buy ok?" Do you have days like this?
I have day's like this all the time. I call it the electric love of God. When His glory fills the room. It has not stopped and I know it never will stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Do you remember days like this from your past? I believe this is something no one can take from us. This is why WE MUST EXPERIENCE GOD! Experiencing God is more important than the scriptures! You see if you experience HIM then, Bible revelation can be added to you. But if you don't experience HIM first then Bible knowledge is just a compilation of facts, they are true, but they don't have any place of reference, without HIM.
This is not true my friend. Faith cometh by hearing Jesus speak the word to you. The word is everything. and nothing can be done without it. I would rather have the word everyday and never feel the Lord if I had to chose. The flesh can never please God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0

2).Most of my life, at least as far back as I can remember I've had a desire and love for God/Jesus. As I've grown older, I've seen many things in "Christendom",

I've seen communes (come and go in failure).
Bitterness
I've seen myself and other brothers walk in their own ways (you might call it backsliding),
Bitterness
I've been hurt by supposed brothers in Christ,
Bitterness
I've seen TV preachers act cocky, and ridiculous,
Bitterness
I've seen people chase tithes and money,
Bitterness
I've seen people in big churches (faithful tithers) go without help while in need, I've seen people chase their own kingdom and building programs.
Bitterness
I've seen people pretend to prophecy, knowing they were not HEARING from HIM, (and in failure, excuse themselves by saying they were practicing),
Bitterness
I've seen names in lights (but not Jesus name).
Bitterness
I've seen people destroyed by the sheparding movement.
Bitterness
I've seen men of god after devoting their lives to "the ministry" destroyed after a single mistake, instead of forgiven.
On and on I could go... So does any of the above remind you of the book of acts or the first group of believers?
Bitterness

Oh My Friend I see now your pain and failure. Please pray the secret bitterness wll be forgiven and forgotten


Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
This is why I believe we must have and will have change. God is not interested in a "body" with spot or wrinkle. As I searched different churches, communities, and internet sites,

I've come across a hand full of people that have the essence/smell of life and others who are just religious (relating to God only in their learning and mind), yet

I yearn for true brethren and their fellowship, realizing that only God can cause these people to be gathered together and revealed to one another, and have them be in accord with one mind. Jesus may give the gift of eternal life to some, that's His prerogative, but to say all people have the same "experience/fellowship/love relationship" with Jesus or each other is not correct.

We see the difference in people (John, Peter, Paul) and we see the same differences thru-out time, we see times of revival (1900's, 1940's, 1970's) and in each of these times we see tare and wheat together. We see a time of purity and passion then a colder period, where men's hearts seem to grow cold, and God becomes a forgotten memory.
Are you saying you had grown cold and had forgot what the Lord has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
In contrast we never see this in churches, they are always attended by praying people, people arguing scriptures and doctrine, yet hardly ever displaying life as we see in the same revival periods. Yes I believe mercy, calls for a move of God again.
I don't know where you go to church but that is not what I see..
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
3).One more reason, I believe we need change is because the gospel needs to be preached.
Are you preaching?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
We believe the gospel has been preached, from the generosity of America, but I think this is only true in very narrow windows of time (revival 1900's, 1940's, 1970's etc) and only by certain persons (who knew HIM). Then of course there is the occasional believer who is submitted to the (breathings) of the Spirit, this believer shares out of the reservoir of undeniable life (the fellowship between this believer and the Spirit). This bears fruit since it’s not just a message of words but is accompanied by this fellowship and life.
"only occasional. My what a failure Jesus and the Holy Spirit has been in your eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
The preaching of the gospel by religious folks just doesn't work! How could it, they are not ambassadors of the very Spirit, since they refuse to give up their life thru that act of ultimate (life giving) which is the "surrender of self".
Oh my Friend how can you judge so many. who are these people you are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
4). In the 1860's 1900's 1940's 1960's we saw the beginning of several moves of God upon people who were desperate to know HIM. They found the one they were seeking for.

Then shortly after in each time period, (even in the new testament)

we see charlatans, hirelings move in among the sheep of God, these men who really don't know the master teach doctrines not from revelation via an intimate relationship.

But from the minds of others who were also like themselves,
who teach only from the tree of knowledge:
From the mind of one man to the mind of another,
thereby polluting the little sheep and convincing others,
because the so-called doctrines of men are believed by the masses also.
Bitterness anger ouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
This is such a subtle thing that it can inhibit your walk, because you’re not discipled but instead taught by men who have never had an intimate walk with God. So as believers we must know Him and find revelation that agrees with the scriptures, and or that changes our understanding of the scriptures.

5). I often wonder how these spiritual things work...It's hard to find answers sometimes since we are mortal. And often IF you are like me, its hard to keep on believing that God can find a good reason to go on loving me...

But as I look back...I see of course some differences, the late 60's thru the mid 70's were a move of god, especially for the young...We always see (under an anointing) god doing unusual graceful things in the lives of people...Then it tapers off...Probably so as not too be common and taken for granted by us.

So where does an experience in God begin? I have to believe (and remember I'm limited by my mortality and limited knowledge so I could be wrong), it starts with God putting a hunger in your heart....Now if that hunger exists, and it sounds as though it does, for you sound like a seeker...then

I would approach God in a simple fashion, (for me it was doing the only thing I knew to do, I went to the Library to research books about religion and god). then shortly after I prayed with Gary (see testimony) I just knew in my heart that god wanted my whole life, every thought belonged to him, SO I just started with my thoughts, if I had a thought that came into my mind and it said "give that person a bible" or "tell that person that you are a Christian and that you will be praying for them" then I would obey....

One day I told a Christian brother about this (thought stuff) and how I judged my thoughts by the little knowledge I had of the bible, and if my thoughts were agreeable (good things vs. evil) then I would obey... This brother told me too keep on obeying those thoughts as long as they agreed with scripture, and as I did then the thoughts would go from just thoughts, too the voice of the Lord, (my sheep know my voice) (sheep follow-they are surrendered to their master), well just as this brother said, it did indeed happen that way for me...So seek HIM and if you can do today, what I can't seem to do (surrender with all your heart)...I'm sure you will meet HIM, maybe in a different experience, but never the less I'm sure His goal will be the same...To possess your whole heart.
I am glad you studied

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
6). A Christian historian tells a true story about a peasant in the 1600's living under the rule of the catholic church. The peasant is working the field an a cardinal and his procession go by, as they approach the cardinal speaks to the peasant, about a new edict from Rome. The cardinal quotes a verse of scripture, the peasant replies that the cardinal quoted the verse incorrectly. The cardinal says to the peasant "How would you know, being you are unlearned and illiterate ?" The peasant replies: "because the spirit IN ME said you quoted it wrong"!

How true this is, if we only have the book and don't hear that still small voice on the inside, from the throne of our heart the center of HIS kingdom! Then I fear we miss the most important piece of intimacy, yet HIS Word and HIS scriptures work together, one a current guide for us THE NOW and the other, which can still speak but was spoken to another hundreds of years ago, serves as a foundation. But We live by breath, and the words that proceed from the mouth of God, "My sheep know my voice" "for those who are sons of God are led of the spirit of God".
This story is absolutly not true. It is not even biblical. Who was the cardinal. what verse did he quote? How did he quote it wrong.? I will be praying for you. Because of your anger for geing hurt in church it is easier for you to believe a story like this rather than the truth.

You said you liked bluntness
I pray this blessed you My Friend

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: eagle4him

Amen! I learned a lot from your two posts, Jerry. I, too have been making excuses for why I can't do this or that. Why the church won't let me do this or that. I have lost authority only because I have given it away. Dear Jesus, forgive me for my mistakes--all of them. The ones I am aware of and also the ones that I am not aware of. Restore me, Lord, to right standing with You. Father shut the doors that no man can open, and open the doors that no man can shut.

Lord, if possible, remove this cup from me, but if not, then Lord, not my will but Thine be done in Jesus mighty name! Lord grant me this day, Your favor. Bless me this day Lord, that I would be a blessing to others. Grant me Your grace this day, Lord, to be the light you have called me to be. Open the windows of heaven, Lord, and let it rain..........


Posted by: JeriRose12

Thanks for the posts, Jerry. Beautiful responses.

I thought of this last night. What the early church dealt with:

Ananias and Sapphria were greedy and lied about money.

Peter was a hyporcite, only eating with the Gentiles when the Jews weren't present.

Paul wrote to the Corinthian church to get the incest out of their midst.

Paul and Barnabus had a disagreement that caused them to part ways.

These issues don't seem much different than what is going on in today's church. Rod0 asks if we think any of this stuff was going on in the first church, and, yes, I do. The Bible plainly says so, as the incidents above would attest.

They prayed around the clock for Peter's release from jail, then, when he was at the door, the girl couldn't even believe it was Peter.

They were humans, like we are humans.

I've been hurt in churches, too, long story short. But I still attend one. For I need a body of believers to encourage me in The Lord.

Thanks for your faithfulness to The Lord, Jerry!

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: eagle4him

The Bible teaches us to pray for those that persecute us. (wheter it is the church or not)

The Bible says that we are to submit to authority--even the ungodly authority, for all authority is from God.--we don't have to obey all authority, for some authority is ungodly, but we still need to submit, like it or not!

A person not in a church is a free agent, without accountability. If you don't like what you've seen then start your own church. This is America (no offense Germany, or other countries) You can do all things through Christ who sets you free.

The Bible says that we are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves--whether in a building, on the internet or in someone's home. For wherever two or more are gathered in His name, there He is!


Posted by: rod0

Thankyou, I liked what you said, some folks are just religious, and when you state something they don't like they call you names and try to be your shrink, saying your bitter, or angry, of which I'm neither...

Must be a whole lot of correspondance courses being taken for becoming a pastor or counselor, cuz I been gettin alot of it here.

But I'm sure not all are christians...

cuz I dont feel any luv, especially from brotha jerry.. rockin the house with all his stuff.

Man o man.Lord help us


Posted by: Christian Commando

rod0-

I'm sorry for the experiences you've had that have negatively effected your attitude, as we have all here tried to show Christ-like thinking and actions towards you. It's a shame you speak against God guidance from His Word as so many have shared with you, including Pastor Jerry.

But, we must all accept the decisions you make, to accept the Truth of God shared here or not. I do. Thus, if you still insist upon posting complaints about God's systems and it's operating, willing more to find fault than be a vessel for God to help Him change things for the better, then I'm wasting time exchanging conversations with you, as you come across unwilling to accept God's Truth and being willing to follow His Truths.

Thank you for your time-


Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Must be a whole lot of correspondance courses being taken for becoming a pastor or counselor, cuz I been gettin alot of it here.

But I'm sure not all are christians...

cuz I dont feel any luv, especially from brotha jerry.. rockin the house with all his stuff.

Man o man.Lord help us


Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Please read my post and respond to what I say.. This is my desire to have you respond to what I wrote.. not to have you inject or read something (totally different) into my post..."


Dear Rod:

You asked for it and I posted your answers above.
I took the time and love to answer you.

So you take a shot at us by saying we got our education from correspondence courses.

I forgive you my friend.

Then you said we are not real Christians because you did not like the response to your attacks on the Christian body.

I forgive you again my friend.
Jesus please forgive Rod because he really does not know anything about us.

Oh by the way, MaMaCat is not on your side either. I have known her for almost 9 years. I think she still loves me.

Pastor Jerry


Posted by: rod0

I apologize, I think..

I should keep my opinions to myself, I meant no harm and think my attitude started to suck.

Jerry I especially apologize to you, God bless you, your probably the best pastor in the world.

I'm sure we still disagree, but I can extend my hand to you, even if our doctrines are different.
I’m not angry or bitter and would admit if I was, just as I admit here, that I've been wrong. But I can not admit to what I haven't done...

I was just trying to engage others, I don’t know who is and who isn’t saved, I just have a firm belief that there is a false and a true church.


I meant no harm.

Someone once said "WE" kill our wounded...

Honestly at times I have felt more loved by non-christians, than christians.

Non christians can love it seems, without the conditions, that religous folks seem to place on others, that makes me sad..

Some one on this forum called me a hypocrite...Maybe I am, if so God forgive me...

So in closing I offer an apology…

Also Please delete ALL of my posts from your forum, except this one, PLEASE, I BEG you..

Blessings to all.

rod....out


Posted by: MarkSentMe

Don't sweat it. If we all thought and worshipped and believed the same way, this would be a boring planet and we would be in a cult rather than a relationship with Jesus!
Look at the disciples. What a bunch! All different walks of life, all different backgrounds. All used by God for His purpose; all of them valuable.
The Bible is FULL of people who led less than stellar lives and God used them!
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than going into a garage doesn't make you a car. Christians need the fellowship of other believers because the world wants us to conform to its ways. It is easy to be lulled by the media into acceptance of unGodly things. The world wants us to believe that non-acceptance of sinful ways is bigotry and intolerance.
My family is a military family. We live far from family, so our church family is here for us. Being away from family, while at first was hard, is really a good thing- my family is very lost and not necessarily positive influences for my children.

This forum is basically a family. We all have people in our family who can get to us if we let them. I like to call them "Sandpaper People" because they are sent to soften US.

Don't leave. We need people of varying and differing opinions, experiences and levels of growth. Otherwise we get a false sense and start to only want to associate with people of like-mind. Not good.
Peace.


Posted by: eagle4him

Proverbs 27:17
"Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another"

for Rachel: ...one (wo) man...

for aka: ...man, 376 'iysh eesh contracted for 582 (or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant); a man as an individual or a male person; often used as an adjunct to a more definite term (and in such cases frequently not expressed in translation):--also, another, any (man), a certain, + champion, consent, each, every (one), fellow, (foot-, husband-)man, (good-, great, mighty) man, he, high (degree), him (that is), husband, man(-kind), + none, one, people, person, + steward, what (man) soever, whoso(-ever), worthy. Compare 802.

lol,
Bruce


Posted by: JeriRose12

If I said anything out of line or in the flesh, I am sorry. Please forgive me.

I did not mean to shoot at a Christian, and I heard that we can use The Word to do that....

Standing in defense of God's Word was my only intention. But in my passion, I do get heated.

Praying for you and all of us to come into a deeper, stronger, higher relationship with HIM.

I also pray that you can find or already have some real believers that you are fellowshipping with.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: MamaCat

Quote:
Originally Posted by JG
Oh by the way, MaMaCat is not on your side either. I have known her for almost 9 years. I think she still loves me.

Pastor Jerry

It will be 10 years this July, Jerry! Of course I still love you! We may disagree on things, but I know without a doubt you're a man of God, full of the Holy Ghost and power, who cares deeply about all people and who has dedicated his life to Jesus Christ! Your meetings radically changed my life and relationship with Jesus.


Posted by: Stephany

Thank You, Mama Cat.
You hit the bulls eye and restored my faith in Christians. Most of the people the Lord brings across my path to help are fresh off the streets with some pretty smelly grave clothes. I'm sorry to say the last place I can take them as newborns in the Lord, is an American church setting. They would be slaughtered by the Sadducees and Pharisees setting in the pews before they could even learn to crawl.
Instead I get to meet them where they are at, not where I think they should be. I get to feed them sips of formula, not steak they would choke on, change lots of diapers, here about lots of abuse that sounds more like a war journal, and watch the Holy Spirit transform lives and preform miracle after miracle in his time and way, not how I think it should be done. Thank You Father, for your Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are so much better at transforming lives than I ever thought of being.
Blessings To You
Stephany