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at least obey the scriptures?

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Posted by: rod0

There is so much in the New Testament about giving (I'm not speaking of tithing, but of giving). And doing for another what you would want for yourself... If someone asks you for you're....give them...also…

I knew a lady a few years ago, we managed the building she and her husband lived in, it was an apartment building of 200 units. I was a young father and didn't have any extra money, I had two babies, if your young parents or were you know what I mean.
Anyway her and her husband had been in a car wreck..

They were faithful, church goers and tithers to a HUGE church in our area.

One day she came to me crying, I said what's wrong, she said "rod, I don't have enough for my rent, can I pay half?" I told her as the manager it wasn't up to me; someone else came by and picked up the rent deposits and payments. I asked if her church family could help her? She said she asked and they said NO "Sorry we are paving the parking lot and can't help you"

Now I know what you're thinking...Churches see this kind of abuse all the time, everyone wanting money...

Well my problem was/is she was not an abuser and she was in need, you know why I know that for a fact?

BECAUSE she was in a body cast half way up her body, and her husband was bed ridden...I gave her all I had in my checking account and prayed God would provide me with formula for my babies, and He did...But you know what...That parking lot looked good when it was finished...Too bad it wasn't popular or in vogue back then to ask...WWJD.

I guess that's my problem with churchianity. And why I believe that the 10% rule is out to lunch, it seems to make us think we did our part. How about; obeying the voice of the Spirit, or at least obeying the scriptures. I'm not going to list them. You look them up!!!

So many are willing to pray a pious prayer and leave you sitting hungry...Possibly I'm wrong, or we just don't like to talk about these things?

I have an idea. We stop paying for those huge expenditures, like building, payroll, and salaries. Then we would have more to give to the poor.. God help us…We are do far away from you.


Posted by: BrendaMagana

Teach all of us Mighty Lord to be doers as well as hearers of the Word.

Open our eyes to Your ways and teach us to walk in them. Amen


Posted by: Christian Commando

Rod0-

The main focal point tho, is always God and Jesus Christ. Yes, Churches have thier failings. But, God declres, "seek ye firt the Kingdm of Heaven and all these things shall be added unto you".

But, God also declares, He has a time and purpose for all things on this earth. That means, what we may witness as a failing in a church, may not be that at all, but the purpose God has for seeing something accomplished thru another way.

We need to realize, God declares His ways are not our ways and thus, we may not always understand how or what God is doing, yet He always accomplishes His goals in the very best way it should be for the situation and or people involved.

I pray this helps you to realize we can look at things appearing as negatives, in a postive, God and Christ focused light, for God can even turn evil things over to good things.

God Bless!!


Posted by: eagle4him

Jesus also said that He would build His church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Look at the American church today. 40% of the pastors are currently invloved in or will be involved in sexual immorality,adultery and end up in divorce.

50%-60% of the "body of christ--the church" will end up in divorce.

Cancer, heart disease, addictions, also prevail in the American church today. If we are the body, why aren't the hands healing??????????

I know we live in a 'fallen' world. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. well then, stupidity is knowing this and still doing the same thing.

I blame the pastors and bible colleges in the United States for churning out carbon copies of themselves. The American church today has a form of godliness without the power! Any church established as a 501-c3 corporation (non-profit) cannot endorse a political candidate from the pulpit or fear the losss of tax-exempt status. Now there is legislation pending to control our thoughts and make it a crime to think much less preach out against homosexuality as thought crimes.



I am not angry, bitter or upset, either. I am only speaking the truth of what I see each Sunday. I do tithe, not out of fear of being under a curse, for Jesus became a curse for us, but rather because of the covenant promise of our Lord to rebuke the devourer on our behalf. That is pretty good insurance! He also promises to pour out a blessing larger than we can receive! Thank you Jesus!

Any theologian would tell you that ecclesia, or the church means 'called out'. Pastors teach that we are called out of the world, out of our sinful nature. I wonder if the scripture really means for the "Remnant", the few commited christians called out of the worldly church, the kingdom of man and into the church that Jesus is building! If Jesus showed up to most services on Sunday, He probably wouldn't be welcome. He may not look the part, talk the part. He might speak out against the Pastor, wchick is a crime in most churches today. You can be up to your eyeballs in sin in the American church today and still be on staff, still preach, still lead small groups. But God, forbid if you speak out against false doctrine in the church you are labeled as rebellious and kicked out of fellowship.

There is something definitely wrong with this picture!


Posted by: JeriRose12

What bothers me is that you say you don't do church....Yet church was God's idea. Now you ask if we should at least obey God. What about you not obeying God by leaving the church? I see no scripture, anywhere, that says it's OK to leave church, quit church, not attend church.

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: MamaCat

Once again, church is not a building or service or religious ritual! The Bible says to gather together with the saints on a regular basis. It doesn't say WHERE.

We call attending a service on Sunday in a building as "going to church" but that is not Biblical! WE ARE THE CHURCH, so how can we, as Christians, "leave it, not attend it or quit it"??

We have to think Biblically, not traditionally.


Posted by: rod0

Man finally someone to my aid, someone gets it...Whew, thought I was losing my mind...

OK bear with me, let’s just say, I'm right...Then you may ask why this “chuchianity” thing, why does this "system" exist...It is God’s will, but not that it may last forever. The system is to draw a contrast...To contrast the REAL church, so she (the true one) may be revealed...A contrast, as black shows well against white, a contrast for the true believer, the religious, and the world.

Guys, look this church thing, "NOT THE CHURCH" but this thing you DO, that you call the church, which is not the church, but is a religious form, a habit, a comfort zone for you...You wouldn't know what to do without it...You would feel naked. Without it... It’s not good for you, meeting together is, if you are believers and HIS Spirit is among you.

And are you really obeying the commands of the New Testament? You don't even know if those people you are meeting with are believers unless God shows you...What if they truly don't know him.. How can God ever call you out, if you hold so tightly to this false system?

What fellowship does light have with darkness, and who came behind Jesus to sow? Were the results of his sowing, obvious or hidden?

I'm against no one, why would I be, what would I gain, I don't know you? I don't care if you continue to go to church, that’s between you and God. But I don't believe it’s HIS will to continue in this "Thing called church" and when you protest and don't reason together with me, but instead get all emotional, it reveals...YOU... Not me.

Let me ask you, since it’s obvious you want to argue without carefully reading / responding to my post...Look at the first post, let me rephrase the obvious to you...During the dark ages, where were the true believers? Did they exist? Did they go to "Church"...

How about Hebrew 11:35-38, where did they meet? Sounds like they were having fun huh...

Think about this, what is a true believer, who is the Ecklesia...God, will reveal them and gather them, they will meet together, I pray you will be in the midst of these people, for they will NOT be doing "Church"...

They will have a Spirituality, a "LIFE" you can't imitate, by doing church, praying, fasting, acting patient..ETC...And you will either want that life or desire to kill them for removing what’s presently called "Christianity" God will reveal what a true Christian is...He must do it, for HIS mercy demands, that the world ,may see the Christian as they saw Christ, in contrast to the Pharisee, (the religious)...


Posted by: Christian Commando

Hehe, well, I would suggest we all go back and read God's Word in the New Test. again. It seems people forget, while our bodies may be the "Temple of God", we are still called to "Church" see the letters written to Corinthians, Ephesis, Galatians and more. You'll find, the Apostles had helped the groups of Christian converts "start Churches" in those settlements.

Take note also of the 7 letters Christ writes in Revelation to the 7 "Churches", represented by the seven golden candlesticks. Yes, that is right on the mark, that "Churchs" is God's idea, and they were brought bout by the ealiest of Christ's Leadership started.

Now, God also declares we are not to forsake the gathering together of the Saints for praise and worship of God and fellowship with other believers. So, while there is no Commandment saying we should meet in Churches, still, it is undniable, God started them thru the Apostles as a guideline for Christianity to hold to and continue doing for that purpose.

Thus, it would be against God then, to stop or never go to a Christian Church preaching and teaching God's Word, even if any particular Church has its failings. Why?

Christianity is made up of falable equally born in sin people. Thus, not one Church will be perfect, therefore, we are to strive to be Christ-like, in serving as a vessel for God to help that Church grow to be more- "Christ-like".

Might I share this, that we should be more careful not to malign the Church system, being of God, as this is proving we are discrediting God. Evryone, regardless of who they are, which includes all of us here, are falable and born in sin. Thus, we have no right to speak against others' falings found in the Christian churches, as we are just as sinful as they are. Question that? Guess again-

God declares that "no, there are none that are found worthy, no not one"- (of us- people). So please be more careful in your critiquing of christianity at any level or form, that God won't find reason to judge you for your judging others.

God Bless!!


Posted by: rod0

Brother;


The scriptures you quoted are true and I am in total agreement, BUT THEY are written to REAL BELIEVERS, thus you prove my point....The wheat and tare grow together to be revealed in the end time...

Also plz stop with the "Lord I pray for this brother that he may not be angry at the system you have created for us to”......

It’s like me saying "Lord I pray for this brother "Commando:" that he will stop being a homosexual....

See how false that is...it’s a way of diverting from the truth of what I'm saying, and not having to deal with the topic...

LIKE I SAID< I'm sharing my heart...I'M NOT ANGRY at you or anyone else...

Was Jesus angry when he told the Pharisee the truth? I don't believe He was angry to the point of sin, since He did no sin...Hope this is clearer for you....


Posted by: JeriRose12

I never said church was a building; I said it was people. Is it you or me who is not reading carefully?

The question is: WHAT PEOPLE, WHO ARE BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST, ARE YOU ASSEMBLING WITH???

~JeriRose~
In HIM in 2007


Posted by: JG

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
NOW where did you gather that I was upset? Just being honest. Please read my post and respond to what I say.. This is my desire to have you respond to what I wrote.. not to have you inject or read something (totally different) into my post..."


Dear Rod:

You asked for it so here it is.
Word for word response to your post
I am posting this in all the places you seem to be going.

By the Way: Yes the body of the people is the church not the organized corporation. But I do not understand why you want to attack a group of people that call themselves Baptist, Assemblies or any other name. All they are doing is letting people know they are there.

At least they are doing something. Again WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Are you forming a group of people to teach them. I don't care if it is on tuesdays, pick a day and a time that is up to you.

But Why be so angry at any other group of people who have done you no harm and attack and judge them by saying they are not Christians.

Pastor Jerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Dear Brothers and Sisters
This is not meant to offend. But I must be true to my heart, the great deception is spiritual. I believe many are lulled into thinking they are OF THE Church when in fact they are just religious. They are not the ECKLESIA, they are pretenders.
This is not true, you really do not care if it offends. You knew it would offend that is why you said "it is not meant ot offend...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
This may be without awareness, and they mean no harm, I do not fault them, it is part of the GREAT plan. Yet by God’s mercy the TRUE ECKLESIA, must know, THEY are in your midst.

How do we obey the command of Paul to not forsake the gathering to together of yourselfs? The command denotes who you are to gather with, we are not talking about perfect and imperfect, we are talking about true and false brethren.
That is not true again... you said I do not fault them... In fact this whole letter finds fault with those you do not agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
So if you stare at the back of someone’s head for an hour or two, going thru the motions of some ritual we call CHURCH, and they have not been BORN AGAIN via a TRUE encounter with Jesus you have disobeyed Paul’s command.
ouch Oh how that hurts so many. to broad brush so many millions of believers by saying they are going through a ritual and are going to hell.. Oh what judgement on so many who love Jesus so much.

Wow you say they are not saved. Who gave you the right to make such a judgement on so many millions of people.

To pass judgement on the Holy Spirit by saying he would allow such a deception to continue.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
True encounters can and most likely are without your consent. Being born again, is not an agreement with doctrines nor does it have anything to do with going forward at a RELIGIOUS MEETING…though it can occur when you go forward at a meeting, but does not have anything to do with mental assent to a bunch of religious dogmatic theories…

That is true my friend but who said that is what is happening in every church

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
To be known of HIM, and to be noticed by others, as the Pharisees noticed the disciples “had been with Jesus”, takes a spiritual encounter.
TRUE

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
The TRUE ECKLESIA, for the sake and mercy of God, (Mercy to the unbeliever before judgment) must be revealed, they cannot stay amongst and hidden with the false church system (People who don’t know him).

These people can appear to be, no I take that back, they can be better than you…

Better than you at:

Scripture reading;

Prayer;

Fasting;

Church attendance;

Feeding the poor;

Being patient;

Being kind;

ETC: WHY / HOW: Because it is flesh, covered by religiosity.

Self will do anything to continue to live;

What's your point


Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
1).How do you describe this LIFE? As a Christian it's hard to do. As I recall moments in my own life, I think of times of stillness, in the midst of activity or in the quiet of night. The presence of His Spirit was there, sometimes speaking other times He was silent, yet the undeniable presence of His Spirit was so real. You couldn't describe it too anyone else, sometimes he was so near, almost physical, at other times He was, just felt, deep in your heart.

I could at times think, and He would answer. Sometimes the answer was spoken, and at other times it was a still small voice in my heart.

Sometimes I would see a person, and while looking at them, I knew about them.

I recall the passion to tell others about him at any given moment, looking for such an occasion never caring where I was, or who was near by.

Constantly His Love moved over me in waves and yet it abode, never departing. I would wake up in the middle of the night and He was there, like a mother hen.

I remember the love for others that was not my own. I remember feeling, and being, separate from the world yet still in its midst.

I recall not worrying about the kind of car I drove, or the condition of my clothes, knowing that He was fully aware of all these things.

I recall being invited out for dinner with brothers, and thinking (silently between myself and God), "Lord I don't have any money, but I'm hungry" and then someone would say "hey rod I'll buy ok?" Do you have days like this?
I have day's like this all the time. I call it the electric love of God. When His glory fills the room. It has not stopped and I know it never will stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
Do you remember days like this from your past? I believe this is something no one can take from us. This is why WE MUST EXPERIENCE GOD! Experiencing God is more important than the scriptures! You see if you experience HIM then, Bible revelation can be added to you. But if you don't experience HIM first then Bible knowledge is just a compilation of facts, they are true, but they don't have any place of reference, without HIM.
This is not true my friend. Faith cometh by hearing Jesus speak the word to you. The word is everything. and nothing can be done without it. I would rather have the word everyday and never feel the Lord if I had to chose. The flesh can never please God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0

2).Most of my life, at least as far back as I can remember I've had a desire and love for God/Jesus. As I've grown older, I've seen many things in "Christendom",

I've seen communes (come and go in failure).
Bitterness
I've seen myself and other brothers walk in their own ways (you might call it backsliding),
Bitterness
I've been hurt by supposed brothers in Christ,
Bitterness
I've seen TV preachers act cocky, and ridiculous,
Bitterness
I've seen people chase tithes and money,
Bitterness
I've seen people in big churches (faithful tithers) go without help while in need, I've seen people chase their own kingdom and building programs.
Bitterness
I've seen people pretend to prophecy, knowing they were not HEARING from HIM, (and in failure, excuse themselves by saying they were practicing),
Bitterness
I've seen names in lights (but not Jesus name).
Bitterness
I've seen people destroyed by the sheparding movement.
Bitterness
I've seen men of god after devoting their lives to "the ministry" destroyed after a single mistake, instead of forgiven.
On and on I could go... So does any of the above remind you of the book of acts or the first group of believers?
Bitterness

Oh My Friend I see now your pain and failure. Please pray the secret bitterness wll be forgiven and forgotten


Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
This is why I believe we must have and will have change. God is not interested in a "body" with spot or wrinkle. As I searched different churches, communities, and internet sites,

I've come across a hand full of people that have the essence/smell of life and others who are just religious (relating to God only in their learning and mind), yet

I yearn for true brethren and their fellowship, realizing that only God can cause these people to be gathered together and revealed to one another, and have them be in accord with one mind. Jesus may give the gift of eternal life to some, that's His prerogative, but to say all people have the same "experience/fellowship/love relationship" with Jesus or each other is not correct.

We see the difference in people (John, Peter, Paul) and we see the same differences thru-out time, we see times of revival (1900's, 1940's, 1970's) and in each of these times we see tare and wheat together. We see a time of purity and passion then a colder period, where men's hearts seem to grow cold, and God becomes a forgotten memory.
Are you saying you had grown cold and had forgot what the Lord has done

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
In contrast we never see this in churches, they are always attended by praying people, people arguing scriptures and doctrine, yet hardly ever displaying life as we see in the same revival periods. Yes I believe mercy, calls for a move of God again.
I don't know where you go to church but that is not what I see..
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
3).One more reason, I believe we need change is because the gospel needs to be preached.
Are you preaching?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
We believe the gospel has been preached, from the generosity of America, but I think this is only true in very narrow windows of time (revival 1900's, 1940's, 1970's etc) and only by certain persons (who knew HIM). Then of course there is the occasional believer who is submitted to the (breathings) of the Spirit, this believer shares out of the reservoir of undeniable life (the fellowship between this believer and the Spirit). This bears fruit since it’s not just a message of words but is accompanied by this fellowship and life.
"only occasional. My what a failure Jesus and the Holy Spirit has been in your eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
The preaching of the gospel by religious folks just doesn't work! How could it, they are not ambassadors of the very Spirit, since they refuse to give up their life thru that act of ultimate (life giving) which is the "surrender of self".
Oh my Friend how can you judge so many. who are these people you are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
4). In the 1860's 1900's 1940's 1960's we saw the beginning of several moves of God upon people who were desperate to know HIM. They found the one they were seeking for.

Then shortly after in each time period, (even in the new testament)

we see charlatans, hirelings move in among the sheep of God, these men who really don't know the master teach doctrines not from revelation via an intimate relationship.

But from the minds of others who were also like themselves,
who teach only from the tree of knowledge:
From the mind of one man to the mind of another,
thereby polluting the little sheep and convincing others,
because the so-called doctrines of men are believed by the masses also.
Bitterness anger ouch

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
This is such a subtle thing that it can inhibit your walk, because you’re not discipled but instead taught by men who have never had an intimate walk with God. So as believers we must know Him and find revelation that agrees with the scriptures, and or that changes our understanding of the scriptures.

5). I often wonder how these spiritual things work...It's hard to find answers sometimes since we are mortal. And often IF you are like me, its hard to keep on believing that God can find a good reason to go on loving me...

But as I look back...I see of course some differences, the late 60's thru the mid 70's were a move of god, especially for the young...We always see (under an anointing) god doing unusual graceful things in the lives of people...Then it tapers off...Probably so as not too be common and taken for granted by us.

So where does an experience in God begin? I have to believe (and remember I'm limited by my mortality and limited knowledge so I could be wrong), it starts with God putting a hunger in your heart....Now if that hunger exists, and it sounds as though it does, for you sound like a seeker...then

I would approach God in a simple fashion, (for me it was doing the only thing I knew to do, I went to the Library to research books about religion and god). then shortly after I prayed with Gary (see testimony) I just knew in my heart that god wanted my whole life, every thought belonged to him, SO I just started with my thoughts, if I had a thought that came into my mind and it said "give that person a bible" or "tell that person that you are a Christian and that you will be praying for them" then I would obey....

One day I told a Christian brother about this (thought stuff) and how I judged my thoughts by the little knowledge I had of the bible, and if my thoughts were agreeable (good things vs. evil) then I would obey... This brother told me too keep on obeying those thoughts as long as they agreed with scripture, and as I did then the thoughts would go from just thoughts, too the voice of the Lord, (my sheep know my voice) (sheep follow-they are surrendered to their master), well just as this brother said, it did indeed happen that way for me...So seek HIM and if you can do today, what I can't seem to do (surrender with all your heart)...I'm sure you will meet HIM, maybe in a different experience, but never the less I'm sure His goal will be the same...To possess your whole heart.
I am glad you studied

Quote:
Originally Posted by rod0
6). A Christian historian tells a true story about a peasant in the 1600's living under the rule of the catholic church. The peasant is working the field an a cardinal and his procession go by, as they approach the cardinal speaks to the peasant, about a new edict from Rome. The cardinal quotes a verse of scripture, the peasant replies that the cardinal quoted the verse incorrectly. The cardinal says to the peasant "How would you know, being you are unlearned and illiterate ?" The peasant replies: "because the spirit IN ME said you quoted it wrong"!

How true this is, if we only have the book and don't hear that still small voice on the inside, from the throne of our heart the center of HIS kingdom! Then I fear we miss the most important piece of intimacy, yet HIS Word and HIS scriptures work together, one a current guide for us THE NOW and the other, which can still speak but was spoken to another hundreds of years ago, serves as a foundation. But We live by breath, and the words that proceed from the mouth of God, "My sheep know my voice" "for those who are sons of God are led of the spirit of God".
This story is absolutly not true. It is not even biblical. Who was the cardinal. what verse did he quote? How did he quote it wrong.? I will be praying for you. Because of your anger for geing hurt in church it is easier for you to believe a story like this rather than the truth.

You said you liked bluntness
I pray this blessed you My Friend

Pastor Jerry