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What is the importance of watching for Christ's return?

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Posted by: Christian Commando

I've heard alot of pros and cons about why we should actually be watching for Christ's return.

Well, I've been intensely interested as the years went by, studying it more and more, all because Christ and God commands us to do this. In a moment, I'll share the Scriptures that sparked my interest in needing to understand how to keep watch for Christ's return.

First Christ gave us this command-Matt. 24:42-

"Watch therefore; for ye know not what hour your Lord will come".

Thats Jesus' command for us. But why so important to do this?

V 43- "But know this, that if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broke up".

God tells us thru Paul in I Thess. 5:2,4 and 6-

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord cometh as a thief in the night". 4- But ye brethern, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief". 6- "Therefore, let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

But God warns us its necessary to be watchful and paying attention. Why Check these Scriptures out-

Matthew Chapter 24 covers all the major signs Christ gives to show us when His return is near.

At the start of Matt. Chap. 25, He gives reasons why we need to be watchful and prepared for His return. He starts with the story of the 10 Virgins and how 5 got themselves fully prepared, while the other 5 did not.

On thier journey to meet up with thier Lord, the 5 ill prepared virgins ran out of lamp oil. They asked the other 5 for some of thiers. They refused, as may not have enough themselves then.

The ill prepared 5 left then to get more oil. While gone, the well prepared 5 met up with thier Lord and the ill prepared 5 missed thier Lord.

Now, people have said, because Christ declares His sheep know His voice and He knows them and they will follow, thus... people don't have to pay so much attention for Christ's return. Hehe, sorry, wrong on that one.

Look at Matt 22:2-14-

This is the story of a King's wedding he was giving for his son. V 3 the King sent his srvants out to his friends to come to his son's wedding. They refused V 4, he did so again, v 5 they made light of the invitation, saying had a farm to deal with, merchandise to take care, etc. To top it off, others even beat and killed the servants sent them.

So, in v 7, the King then got angry, sent out his armies, killed the murderers and burned thier city. V 8, the King then sends his servants out down alleys, streets, everywhere, to bring in any, good and bad, who would then be thier wedding guests.

Getting late, so will continue this at a later time.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Rachel R

I LOVE watching for the next step!

It has been so exciting to watch the pieces of the puzzle come together.

I been watching it all my life, since Israel and I were both born in 1948.

My Mother always taught me that I might surely be alive to see it all happen.

I remember waiting for each prophecy, but now they are ALL there.

Jesus could truly call us at any moment.

ALL the prophecies are fulfilled.

The stuff happening in Gaza right now is SO much a part of it all.

When those Arab leaders rushed to Egypt to meet a few days ago, I thought we were out of here.

It won't be long.

The last harvest is sweeping folks into the Kingdom.

If you are not on board, please accept Jesus' immediately, because we will soon be gone, and we want to take everyone that we can.

I have a huge set of 'Left Behind' books. There are a pile of them here, looks like over a dozen.

I keep them in my living room in plain site, along with my study stuff, so that whoever explores my house after the rapture might find them and use them to understand what happened.

They are going to come in and see how we lived, so have your homes ready!

I want to go in the first load!

Rachel R


Posted by: eagle4him

But with the Lord, a day is as 1,000 years! Does this apply to "the Day of the Lord?"

There is also a scripture that says not to look forward to this day, either, because of the horror and judgement!

I personally believe that this subject should be approached with "fear and trembling"!



Seek the Lord, now, while He may be found!


Posted by: GODS Grace

In Rev. 2 we read warnings given of the spiritual condition of the churches. Laodicicean thought it was rich with goods and of need of nothing instead it is declared to be lukewarm. "...I will spew it out of my mouth.”
Now, Image if your wife apathetically responded to your affection this way...
"Sorry honey, but I'm good."
The Old and much of the New Testament ministry of Jesus addressed Jew.
The Jews told Moses to go to the mountain to see Gods glory.
Why wouldn’t they go? (Selah…think about it…)
God still wants to reveal His glory to His people. He says “My people perish for lack of knowledge” God’s touch reveals his intimate agape love that can best be compared to one of lives must passionate life changing moments…the marriage covenant or being betrothed 1. To promise to give in marriage: was betrothed to a member of the royal family. 2. Archaic To promise to marry.…(I would encourage you to study the Jewish wedding customs of that time. Much understanding can be gained by Christians.)
I believe that is why it is written in this context…God wants a people who will worship him out of a heart that desired true/real relationship and not just a religious acts or knowledge. (see list below)
Imagine a marriage…
without passion; empty contract. (Unbalanced legalism)
only functional; filled with compromises. (Carnality)
filled with emptiness and isolation. (Asceticism)
(These marriage covenants are still legally binding but very empty.)

Jesus Christ is the only true foundation for our lives. Psalm 2:8-9 declares that Jesus redeemed us for his inheritance (betrothed)

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. 10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

He wants a people who will respond to him…

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Staying watchful

Will we be “His people” who see His glory and respond?…(Psalms 2:11-12)

Tremble at his majesty and splendor of our King and Judge Jesus in holiness

Rejoice in who we are in Christ and his many great benefits of the cross; as we flow in our gifts while serving in the community of God.

Kissing in intimate, emotional, passionate commune with Him.

John 17:21 That they may be one, as, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that you sent me.”

Will we truly trust Him?
“Blessed are all they that put their trust in him, so “…that the world may believe that you sent me.”

I hope this makes since. Grace

***Notes from PS. 2:11-12 taken from Song Of Songs
Mike Bickle Friends of the Bridegroom


Posted by: Christian Commando

Thank you for your responces, all very good. I'll take each one according to thier order, then continue with my synopsis of the Thread starter.

Rachel-

Well, I'm afraid not all Prophecies dealing with "Last Day" events have not all been fulfilled, for it had been, Christ would've come for His Sheep by now. Why aren't they?

1- We haven't seen the evil of the world reach the point as Christ declares it will get to as was in Noah's Day

2- The "One World Government spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have not rose to world dominating statis or power as yet.

3- The anti-christ- "man of perdition" as Christ calls hm, has not been revealed to the world as yet.

And thats just to start with hehe. oh, and I wouldn't worry about being able to go in the first load hehe, when Christ calls us at the Rapture, the dead shall rise first, and then, those who are alive (all God's Children), will be caught up with them to be with the Lord forever hehe.

Eagle4him-

1- It may, as the Early Church Father's taught the 6 day, 6,000 year belief, where God had created the physical world in 6 days, thus, because a day to God is as 1,000 years to man, man will then exist for 6,000 years before Jesus Christ will return.

Note- It's been proven by Theile, Larken and Reese, 3 major Biblical Cronologists, man has existed for 4,000 years up to the birth of Christ, therefore it is believed and taught, that man will go another 2,000 years before Christ comes again.

2- As for that warning Scripture, because God tells us thru Paul, it is gain for a Child of God to die and be present with God, that Scripture will most certainly pertain only to the unsaved, who will recieve thier level of punishment in the "Lake of Fire" for Eternity.

Note- Yes, even God's Children will suffer embarrassment and hurt at the Great White Throne Judgement, when all things that are hid, shall be revealed, it won't effect our Salvation, but only treasures stored up in Heaven.

3- On the contrary my friend, it should be approached with excitement and exuberance knowing Christ's calling to His Church and our time living in this imperfect world so close to an end, and being with God forever, certinly not lastly important hehe.

GodsGrace-

Incredible, thank you for that responce.

On to the rest of the story hehe, as it were-

So the King told his servants, since those who were bidden were not worthy, v 9- go out and bring into the wdding any who will come. V 10- So the servants gathered all who would come, good or bad and the wedding had its guests.

In v 11- the King then ppears at the wedding to see all the goings on, but here he sees a person with no wedding garment on him. Here its one of the friends he invited but refused to come-(v 12).

Note- According to documentations of Early Church Leaders and other Biblical sources, this man was a covenant- (close friend) of the King's, and had come to see this joke of a wedding with alot of "rif raf" as it were invited to it, which was why he had not put on any wedding garmnt.

V 13- The King then told his servants to bind this friend, hand and foot and throw him out into outer darkness, where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

V 14- Jesus then says- "For many are called, but few are chosen".

Now, the concensus of the main focal point of this Parable is pointed to the Jews planning to reject Christ and seek His death, but afterwards, Christ will then open Salvation to Gentiles- (riff raff). This is true. But theres also this understanding as well-

Notice how God- (King), prompts His Children to be paying more attention to His life for us and involvement in His activities, reading His Word etc, by the King's offers to his close friends, but like many of God's Children as with those close friends, they are caught up in daily life goings on, not paying much if any attention to God or His life for them.

For the lack of keeping God as thier main focal point and living more in the world, some, as the Scripture declares, will fall away from the faith. Now, listen closely- if you do not truely belong to God, how then can a True Child of God fall away from the faith?

It's no different than the Parable of the sower and the seed, where some seed falls on rock, some on hard ground, some in good ground. That on rock won't grow, that on hard ground does grow, but dies off shortly after, where seed that falls on good ground, takes solid root and continues to grow and finally matures.

The Scriptures God and Christ give us about the signs of the "Last Days" are absolutely, just as important as any of the rest of Scripture. It is a vital part of our understanding how to live according to God's guidance thru His Word and how not to miss out on some very special Blessings.

You see, those who will not hear Christ's voice at the Rapture, even tho are True Children of God, are those who may have gotten saved and reborn, but never grew any further in God thru Christ and basically fell away from that relationship. In other words, they had no root foundation in thier heart, to hold faith enough to stay in God thru Christ. Thus, without the growth, knowledge and Wisdom enough to be seeking God in general, they miss out on most all else of God's Blessings.

I pray this helps and look forward to any other rsponces!!

God Bless!!


Posted by: eagle4him

Amos 5:18-26 (New International Version)


The Day of the LORD

18 Woe to you who long

for the day of the LORD!

Why do you long for the day of the LORD ?
That day will be darkness, not light.
19 It will be as though a man fled from a lion
only to meet a bear,
as though he entered his house
and rested his hand on the wall
only to have a snake bite him.

20 Will not the day of the LORD be darkness, not light—
pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

21 "I hate, I despise your religious feasts;
I cannot stand your assemblies.

22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
I will have no regard for them.

23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.

24 But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!

25 "Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?

26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king,
the pedestal of your idols,
the star of your god
which you made for yourselves.



And once again you mention the white throne judgement for believers, but I believe the scriptures clearly state that the white throne judgment if for the non-believers.

You are assuming and arguing for the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine, but there are also more positions that can easily be ascertained by the scriptures.

Scriptural basis (from Wikipedia Encyclopedia)
Supporters of the doctrine of the rapture generally cite the following primary sources in the New Testament (the following are quoted from the NRSV):


Views on the timing of the rapture

One of the tenets of the dispensationalist interpretation of bible prophecy is that in the prophecy of 70 weeks from the book of Daniel (Daniel 9:27), between the 69th and 70th weeks there is a break, lasting an unspecified period of time. Thus, the 70th week of seven years has not yet occurred. This seven-year period will mark the end of the current dispensation, and is referred to as the Tribulation. There is considerable debate (see rapture debate) among Christians who believe in the rapture in regard to the timing of the rapture relative to the Tribulation. Most views hold that Christian believers will be either removed from, or protected from the judgment of God's wrath.


Comparison of Christian millennial interpretations




Pre-Tribulation

The pre-Tribulation rapture, is the view that the rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation period. According to this view, the Christian Church that existed prior to that seven-year period has no vital role during the seven years of Tribulation, and will therefore be removed. Those people who accept Christ after the Rapture will be martyred for their faith during the Tribulation. Saint John the Divine, which some believe is apostle John is seen in Revelation 4:1 as representing the Church caught up to Heaven. John hears the Trumpet and a voice that says, "Come up hither", and he is translated in the Spirit to Heaven and then sees what will happen for those left on earth. The pre-Tribulation rapture is the most widely held position among American evangelical Christians. It has become popular in recent years around the world and through the work of dispensational preachers such as Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost, Tim LaHaye, Dr. J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Smith, Dr. Chuck Missler, Jack Van Impe, and Dr. Grant Jeffrey. [16]



Imminent or not imminent?

Some who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture warn that the rapture is imminent, saying that all of the prophecies concerning the latter days have been fulfilled to the extent that the rapture could take place at any moment. Others suggest that certain requirements must first be met before a rapture can occur, such as these:
  1. The nations of the world must unify their currency onto a universal standard.
  2. There will be peace in Israel (Ezekiel 38).
  3. There will be a one-world government, to correspond to the 7th beast of Revelation, prior to the Antichrist's 8th beast government.
  4. The Jewish temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt in its original place.
  5. Observance of Old Testament commandments concerning animal sacrifices must be reinstated.
  6. There will be a great falling away and the AntiChrist will be revealedThessalonians 2


Mid-Tribulation

A minority view, with few proponents today, is that the rapture happens half-way through the seven-year Tribulation. This view is supported by the 7th chapter of Daniel, where it says the saints will be given over to tribulation for "time, times, and half a time" which is interpreted to mean 3.5 years. That is, half way through the seven years of the tribulation. At this juncture, the Antichrist commits the "abomination of desolation" by desecrating the Jerusalem temple (to be built on what is now called The Temple Mount.)



Prewrath rapture

The prewrath rapture view is that the tribulation of the church begins towards the latter part of the seven-year period, being Daniel's 70th week, when the Antichrist is revealed in the temple. The great Tribulation, according to this view, is of the Antichrist against the church at this time. The duration of this tribulation is unknown, except that it begins and ends during the second half of Daniel's 70th week. References from Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are used as evidence that this tribulation will be cut short by the coming of Christ to deliver the righteous by means of rapture, which will occur after the sixth seal is opened and the Sun is darkened and the moon is turned to blood.[18] However, by this point many Christians will have been slaughtered as martyrs by the Antichrist. After the rapture comes God's seventh-seal wrath of trumpets and bowls (a.k.a. "the Day of the Lord"). [19] The Day of the Lord's wrath against the ungodly will follow for the remainder of the seven years. [20]

Post-Tribulation

The other main view is termed the post-Tribulation rapture (or "Post-Trib"). This view agrees that the concept of a "rapture" is taught in passages such as 1 Thessalonians, and sees the rapture occurring at the end of the Tribulation period. This viewpoint is that Christian believers will be on earth as witnesses to Christ during the entire seven years, until the last day of this age. Post-Tribulation advocates question the "Yo-Yo Theory" which describes the coming of Christ in the clouds for the rapture and then coming back again for the Second Coming. The Post-Tribulation view brings Christ's "appearing" and his "coming" together in one all-encompassing, grand event. The post-Tribulation view is supported by Matthew 24:29–31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...they shall gather together his elect...". This is how the end times are described by Pat Robertson in his 1995 novel The End of the Age. Another account which lends support to the idea of a post-Tribulation rapture is in the specific prayer of Jesus that the Father not take us from the earth, but that he (the Father) would nevertheless "keep them from the evil one." This precludes a pre-Trib or a mid-Trib Rapture to heaven at any time. [21] Prominent authors who support(ed) this view are Dr. Walter Ralston Martin, John Piper, George Eldon Ladd, Robert H. Gundry, and Douglas Moo.[22]





Posted by: Christian Commando

Eagle4him-

Very good recitation, but remember, God teaches His Children to have a healthy loving fear of God, why? Fear not those who can only destroy the body, but fear Him- (God), who can destroy both body and spirit in Hell.

God also speaks of the Great Judgement Day, as a day when His Children will cry, weep and be ashamed. Yet, God will afterwards, wipe away all tears, forget all earthly life transgressions and lovingly accept us, as one minister puts it- Since God used to look at us as unsaved, directly seeing our sin and seperation, now, since accepting His Mercy and Grace in our hearts, God no longer sees us the old way, but sees us thru the Blood of Christ who and which, has cleansed us of all unrightceousness.

Yes, we are to have a healthy fear of God, but not as the kind or level of fear satan uses to manipulate, influence or control us to do his bidding. God the Father is Love and loves us dearly enough to have sacrificed Christ for everyone's sins and even that of the world's sins.

Yes, Christ, as ultimate Judge, does show, as God'sGrace eluded to in that "letter to the Laodiceans", where Jesus shows there are some good points we have held to, but also some points where we are lacking.

Keep in mind my friend, we are a world of born in sin creatures who chose this way over God's back in the beginning. Therefore, we will have things against us, yet, Scriptures show, of the Great Judgement, it will be a bright setting in Heaven before God's Throne. The fearful part described in Amos, Ezekiel and other Books of this great Day, are relating to the emotional side of Judgement, as the judgements described there, relate to the actions God has watched and is bringing upon His First Chosen while still on earth, captivity by once again, another Gentile rule.

This whole era, with Hosea, thru Amos, God shows a continual degredation of His "Body of Christ", until the end of Joel and then shows how the enemy will over take them- (world) and do terrible things on the earth, to those who are saved. This relates to the 7 years the antichrist shall rule and how his peace pact at the start, slowly degrades to his government starting to take the world by force.

There are Scriptures of Prophecies speaking of how those who get saved during the Trib Period, will be hounded and chased, to be killed, and one Scripture speaks of those killed in Synagogues, Jews, so its against all those who convert during this Trib. Period, and what it will be like for goings on.

You see, God speaks of how the "time of Gentile Rule" over Isreal must be fulfilled, before Jesus can return. Now, since the Church will be raptured just before the Trib. Period, what this last judgement of God's Wrath will be for, is the unsaved, but for those unsaved, who will recognize the Truth preached before, or read in God's Word at that time, who convert and stand strong for God.

There are a multitude of Jews who are not truely saved, as with Gentiles. But, a great number of them will, when see this "anti-christ come to power when all is set for him to take rule over the world with his "one world government".

The terror or fear you speak of in Amos, is directed at events of the Tribulation Period, as look at the events shown going on, on earth. God declares in Amos 5:4- "seek ye me and ye shall live".

This Trib. Period will serve two purposes- one, its as a cleansing agent to bring new converts honestly and fervently to God. Secondly, the wrath upon the earth of those Trib years, is the last great sign for the unsaved, to understand the Truth and be given a chance to repent and convert to God.

Just like all the other captivities God has allowed over Isreal since thier beginnings, it all has to do with sins committed against God they are punished for. Jews, just as with Gentiles, are all completely divided up between particular religious beliefs these days. Now, while none are totally wrong or against God, all do have something against God, just as all Gentile religions do, for Christian religions that is.

A trigger Scripture of this is in Amos 8:1-1, where God puts forth a basket of Summer fruit in front of Amos. Then asks Amos what he sees, and Amos describes what it is. But... what does God tell amos after that?

"Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Isreal; I will not again pass by them anymore".

This Scripture, coincides with the one back in Noah's Day, where God declares also- "There shall come a day, when My Spirit will no longer strive with man".

That Scripture, clearly shows, a Rapture of God's Saints shall happen, then the Holy Spirit will be gone from the earth-(as had dwelled within God's Saints during the time before), and those new converts during the Trib Period, will not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them as we have had for 2,000 years up to that time.

How can this be? Christ declared back after His ressurrection, He had to go, that the "Comforter" could come, to lead us to all Truth. Since the Holy Spirit will leave with the Saints at the Rapture, Christ will then be able to return to earth again, once this time of the anti-christ is at its appointed end.

So you see, this fearful "Day of the Lord" is actually refering to the Trib Period which is for earthly Isreal and relates as well to the coming darkness of the Great judgement over the unbelievers.

We cannot relate what shows in Amos to the Great Judgement as terrible darkness, fear and trembling for believers, otherwise Paul's inspiration of the Holy Spirit to say of a believer's afterlife- "it is gain to be with the Lord", rejoice in the Grace of God by faith in Christ as your Lord and Savior" would not hold true then.

God Bless!!


Posted by: GODS Grace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Commando
...A trigger Scripture of this is in Amos 8:1-1, where God puts forth a basket of Summer fruit in front of Amos. Then asks Amos what he sees, and Amos describes what it is. But... what does God tell amos after that?

"Then said the Lord unto me, The end is come upon my people of Isreal; I will not again pass by them anymore".

This Scripture, coincides with the one back in Noah's Day, where God declares also- "There shall come a day, when My Spirit will no longer strive with man".

That Scripture, clearly shows, a Rapture of God's Saints shall happen, then the Holy Spirit will be gone from the earth-(as had dwelled within God's Saints during the time before), and those new converts during the Trib Period, will not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them as we have had for 2,000 years up to that time.

How can this be? Christ declared back after His ressurrection, He had to go, that the "Comforter" could come, to lead us to all Truth. Since the Holy Spirit will leave with the Saints at the Rapture, Christ will then be able to return to earth again, once this time of the anti-christ is at its appointed end.

So you see, this fearful "Day of the Lord" is actually refering to the Trib Period which is for earthly Isreal and relates as well to the coming darkness of the Great judgement over the unbelievers.

We cannot relate what shows in Amos to the Great Judgement as terrible darkness, fear and trembling for believers, otherwise Paul's inspiration of the Holy Spirit to say of a believer's afterlife- "it is gain to be with the Lord", rejoice in the Grace of God by faith in Christ as your Lord and Savior" would not hold true then.

God Bless!!
Hello Brian,

This word used "rapture" in referance to the bible isn't clear.

First question;
Do some people believe the this word "rapture" supposively mean "to excape final judgement"?

Next questions;
This also isn't clear..This Scripture, coincides with the one back in Noah's Day, where God declares also- "There shall come a day, when My Spirit will no longer strive with man". ..."new converts during the Trib Period, will not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them as we have had for 2,000 years up to that time."
"Why God would do this thing as you say?"
How will these "new" converts(...the fruit of God's vine) fit with ..."becoming one..." (as mentioned above in Jesus prayer)?
Does this negate God redemptive plan and man's need for God and Jesus?
The final "end" dependant on human effort alone (without and apart from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)?

The interpretation that I see this scripture in light of..
This Scripture, coincides with the one back in Noah's Day, where God declares also- "There shall come a day, when My Spirit will no longer strive with man".
... is this... God always gives sinners an opportunity to repent before judging them (see Acts 17:30-31; Rom. 2:4; II Pet. 3:9). There was a period of 120 years of grace for the people of Noah's day.God always follows through on his decision to judge (cf. Gen. 7:4 with vss. 12 and 23), once he has announced it and once people have had an opportunity to repent. His judgments are irreversible. God's judgments always lead to death (see Jer. 51:18; Hos. 6:5). Gen. 7:17-24, the only paragraph in the flood narrative that does not contain the name of God, reeks with the smell of death. When judgment results in death, God is no longer there. But the flood story teaches us also that God's judgments always include elements of both justice and grace. Though the story of the flood begins with judgment, it ends with redemption; though it begins with a curse (Gen. 6:7), it ends with a covenant (9:11). If judgment always issues life. Judgment is never God's last or best word to those who believe in him, because "mercy triumphs over judgment" (James 2:13). R Youngblood Elwell Evangelical Dictionary)

The word "final judgement" is easier for me to read clearly about in scriptures.

If i have somehow misunderstood these statements, please forgive me.
I do thank you for starting this thread...
It is good to be "sharpened... "iron sharpen iron...
Blessings!!! Grace


Posted by: Christian Commando

God's Grace-

ok, 1 question- Rapture- I have to research it again, but there are several Scriptures where the Apostles, such as Paul, speak of believing in the return of Christ for the Saints, as in I Cor. 15:51-54, as the Blessed Hope and of escaping the terrible Day of the Lord- (Tribulation Period), in which God pours out His wrath upon the earth. And also where it is spoken of as missing out on that great Judgement of God- (Trib Period). It is not mean't as missing out on the Great White Throne Judgement, for thats when all things hid of everyone, will be revealed.

2 question- Read more in the Old Test. my friend and you'll see where the Holy Spirit did not swell within those people either, tho God did, as with samson and others, have the Holy Spirit come upon them at particular times.

So no, this does not negate God's plan for redemption and our need for God and Christ. Remember as well, even for a short time after Christ had left earth, the Holy Spirit had not yet come to dwell within man until God's appointed time.

God will act upon, by the Holy Spirit, all things prayed for and asked of Him, by His chosen people who will convert during that time, the same as He had done in Old Test times.

The Trib Period will mainly be a time of punishment and chastisement for the usaved and those who were saved but fell away from following God, in order to show them God's Truth, by those who recognize and convert to belonging to God and start sharing and standing boldly for God during that time.

God shows how there will be one third of men killed, one third of trees, grass etc burned, plus alot more during this time.

But, His new converts of that time will not be left alone by God, as God shows in Rev. and other Scriptures, there will be two witnesses God will place on the earth to tell the world of Him and His Word.

I believe these two will be Elisha and Elijah. The only two men God ever took alive off the earth who never died before taken to Heaven. Why? God declares that its appointed unto all men once to die. They haven't as of yet.

But, according to God, He declares these two witnesses will be killed for thier witness of God and Christ towards the end of the 7 year period.

With the technology we have today, it will be clear, TVs will be used to be able to view activities going on all around the world by satelites and suggest these two witnesses will be televised doing thier ministry and then being killed. But they will be raised again, 3 days later.

This is the power and witness of God that will enforce other new onverts to hold fast and strong to God to try and survive this growing holocost that will happen.

And you are right my friend, look at the time God comes to earth to be with Adam and Eve after they had sinned. Step 1- God instructs Gen. 1:28-29, 2:16 and warns man- v 17.

God gives chance for repentance- Gen. 3:11-13. Because man did not repent but passed on blame, God judges- Gen.3:14-19. God still loves them even so- Gen. 3:21.

This shows, how God loves us to instruct us in His ways, and even when we stray, He may chastize-(judge) us, He still stays there and covers for us when we fall, to lift us up and go on in Him.

Very good Sis in Christ-

God Bless!!


Posted by: GODS Grace

Thank you for your reply. I believe my husband and you share this some belief of "prerapture". It sounds great. Despite the fact we own Vanished by John Hagee, Daniel -Final Endtimes by Dr. Jack & Rexella Van Impe Tapes and Revelation by both in our library collection, , I'm still not 100% convinced that I know God's eschatological timeline.
I do except the utter seriousness of "the final judgement" as taught in Jesus parable in Matt. 25:31-36, and that the present decisions I choose are for or against The King and "the least of these" have serious and final consequences... In God's time all people, angels, and nations will be eternally generously rewarded for it's choice and divided.
I still have much to learn. Do you know much about the belief of millienium reign? Have you studied this beliefs, pro vs. con in relationship with scripture?

I do not know Mike Bickle teachings (mentioned previously) in this regard, but I am greatful that he is encouraging teaching to unite true believers. He warns Christian of being preoccupied in seeking to be "the elite bride remnant", whom easily became distracted from Jesus because of "bride pride". Jesus never intends for our life changing revelations from him to cause us to alienate ourselves from his people, yet sadly alienation is so common...

I always enjoy your threads. God has truly blessed you and gifted you as a teacher...one who challenges others to learn and grow deeper in understanding of the word of God... Grace


Posted by: Christian Commando

GodsGrace-

Hehe, well don't think you'll ever know the whole process. Being falable humans, there is no way we can know all things about any part of God and His ways. All that I've been sharing here, is what I believe God has taught me, to the extent of info I've learned, of this process.

Theres alot more, believe me, I do not know. But, from yeas of learning, it wouldn't supprise me to know others out there, may have been taught by God other parts you or I haven't.

Yes, I have a considerable collection by some of the same authors you mentioned, among more.

As for your question about the millenial reign and the subject of "the elite bride remnant", yes, I've studied them fairly extensively too.

As far as the millenium goes, if wondering when it will occur, there are lots of explainations about it floating around out there. But, here are the main focal reasons why I believe it will happen, at the end of what I mentioned before- the 6 day, 6,000 yer belief taught by Early Churh Leaders.

Reasons-

1- Many an Early Church Leader spoke of that belief in thier teachings, all based on Scriptures, refering to Genesis and world creation, a day to God is as 1,000 years to man, etc.

2- Those 3 Christian Chronologists- Reese, Larken and Theille all came up with Biblical time line figures of 6,000 years as well, showing where Christ was born 4,000 years from Adam and Eve's appearance on earth, and man existing for 2,000 years after

3- Now, we come to interesting seemly unrelated information. I believe God was behind the building of the Egyptians greatest Pyramid- Cheops". Why? Consider this little known fact-

The passage way that goes into the pyramid, goes strait in alittle above ground level, then starts an uphill grade. But, it splits off right where it starts that phill grade, and another passage goes downward.

Incredibly found, was that, both passages, when included with the measurements of 1 inch equals a year, end at exactly 2,000 years. The passage going up, I recall hits on several mjor points in man's existance, 1 is Christ's Birth, another was WW I and WWII all, right on the nose.

The upper passage, finally reaches the King's area and ends in his burial chamber at exactly 2,000 years. I like to believe this stands for Christ's return. Why?

Hehe, well , Another little known fact is, the passage going downward, also hits exactly at 2,000 years, where it ends inside just below ground level. And incredibly here too, they found a gaping hole in the ground, that up to several years ago, no one had still been able to reach a bottom to it by any means of tests.

This suggests to me, a sign from God, even if in a false god following civilization, proof that He still produces Hs work even within a nest of satan as it were, showing both ends of God's Children and of the unsaved and length of time.

4- We also have found calendars from the old Mayan and Aztec tribes that populated this continent before civilized man came along. Both of thier calendars also go just past the year 2,000 for the end of man's existance.

If I recall correctly, those 3 Cronologists had figures that came out to just a few years over our year 2,000. Cheops lands right on 2,000, the Mayan and Aztec claendars come out to 2012-2014 or so. Why the difference? Christ declares that no one knows, but God the Father alone, the exact day and hour of Christ's return.

Besides, because man is falable, our calendar figures are considered to be anywheres from 12 or 15- 20 or more years off in figures.

As for the Bride remnant thing, I get a kick out of that. There are several religions, both Christian and Cult, which teach they were specifically chosen by God to bring some great revelation to light in the End Times.

Granted, this could be true, don't get me wrong, but... from my dealings with all the ones I'd studied, several Christian and several cult ones, they are all of a belief that the "Last Days" started somewhere back in the 1800's.

That is how I know, according to God's Word, they are wrong. Why? Christ declares, the generation who sees those signs coming to pass, shall not pass away before seeing the return of the Son of man.

Heres the problem for them then- a generation lives an average of about 75-85 years now. Ok. lets figure this out- from say 1850 AD, 80 years from there comes out to the 1930s hehe. Or say 1880, that comes out to around 1960.

Hehe, sorry, but both of those generations are long dead already and no reports of the world seeing a bright Light returning to earth from the sky.

Well, one of the biggest stumbling blocks we seem to deal with alot, is the basic teachings the majority of the Leadership teaches, without much going into areas it seems are considered less important or possibly unnecessary?

But God taught me early on, every single aspect of His Word is important, for the fact Christ declares- "Upon this rock I shall build My Chrch". Sounds pretty emfatic to me, all of God's Word is thus equally important, which is why I believe God had me as an evangelist, to preach all around subjects, not just mainly particular ones. Tho I am less versed in those God had me deal with the least. So i'm clearly not as good as I should be either.

Thank you Sis for those kind words, I appreciate them very much. I have always valued your input as well for the interest I've witnessed from you also.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Rachel R

I think we are SO close...Jesus is coming soon!

I have no big ideas on this, I just FEEL it.

I can't help but watch, how can anyone look away?

It is the only thing that really matters, and all the rest hinges on it.

It would be like paying for tickets to the big game and sitting in the seat and saying 'Why are all these people looking in the same direction?'.

I am trying to make sure I am prepared in my heart for his call, whether it is my personal death or his coming for all of us.

I try to make sure my house is ready, so that the people who will be coming in after we leave will see that we lived well.

I want to show a clean and orderly existance that will glorify the God who takes us out of here.

Imagine how shocked the poor people will be when we go!

It will be an awful thing to be left behind.

I pray that our homes will be a witness to them...

Oh, I have to tell this story...

Before I was born my parent's attended a small church, and my Mom was the nursery worker during the services.

An elderly man left during the service and Mom asked if he was okay.

He said he didn't feel well and was going to go on home.

She watched him go out to his car.

When the service ended they came out and he had passed away sitting there in his car.

When they drove to his house to get phone numbers for his family members, my Mom said that his little house was perfectly neat and clean.

She especially noted that he had cleaned the kitchen after breakfast and an embroidered tea towel was hanging drying on the small towel bar.

She said that she always hoped to leave life with everything clean and in order as a witness to how she had lived.

She did, by the way. She has been home with the Lord for a while now.

I also want to leave a witness like that.

I want them to think, "Why didn't we listen to them while they were here?".

Rachel R




Posted by: Christian Commando

Very inspiring RachelR.

I've always tried to keep things out in the open relating to the "Last Days", where others can see them. I believe part of our watching and anticipated Return of Christ, is to be sharing about this, which has brought many people much more interested in getting to know God better. It has led a few to Dalvation, but most of all, it has enlightened me to always keep God's Word close by, no matter where or what doing.

Being prepared for Christ is pretty much attending to learning all we can, to be the best witness in as much of a way as we can in every aspect of life, as we can. And it is good, as you have, to set goals to reach for this. We all need to do more of that.

God Bless!!


Posted by: monis1013

Rachel, you said "please accept Jesus immediately because we will soon be gone, and we want to take everyone that we can". I just watched CNN today at noon and while one of the people were doing their newscast, a man was standing behind her holding a huge sign that read "ASK JESUS TO SAVE YOU NOW". God is getting his message out any way he can. I see it on the news all the time. Bible prophecy is coming true at an alarming rate (birth pains). I have no doubt it is soon.


Posted by: Christian Commando

monis1013-

While you are right about God geting the message out any way He can, just remember, when God called each of His Children at recieving Salvation, He declared we all became Kings and Priests under Christ and called into the "Great Commission". Called to that, it is every Child of God's responcibility to be sharing the Gospel with unsaved.

The Gospel was not chosen by God only to be spread by so many of His Children, but all of them. There are multitudes of ways to do this, from walking up to someone out of the blue, to sharing our own testimony with others, witnessing to those we interact with at work, play, social events, plus many many more ways.

There are all kinds of people out there who live varied lives, where they will miss some messages given out in various ways of TV, satelite or radio. Thatswhy its equally important we all share our testimony or God's Gospel of Christ strait out with others.

I pray this helps.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Christian Commando

God's Grace-

You asked what I knew of the Millenial Reign of Christ and more. Well, heres what I believe God has taught me about such things-

Point 1- There are considered 4 basic types known, of interpretations of God's Word, concerning Revelation and related Scriptures. They are- A- Futurist, B- Historical, C- Spiritualized, D- Preterist.

A- Futurist- I mention this one first, as it appears to be the most logical and accurate, according to relating man's time line we are living, to events coming up.

This type of interpretation, accepts Revelation as prophecy, that is yet to be fulfilled in the future, particularly relating to from chapter 4 onward. And hehe, as I like to mention, the Early Churh Leaders also taught about Revelation using this type of interpretation.

As with the rest of God's Word, it is just as well, we take Revelation at face value- (for what It says God literally means), unless God provides clear evidence of having another meaning for it or them.

B- Historical- I don't go along with this type of interpretation, as the general concensis of this is that the Apostle John was describing events that would happen during the "Church" era- (or history of Church).Thus, it is believed then, that we can look back into history and see where these events have already happened.

They run into problems tho, when I've dealt with them in explaining past events and trying to juggle them around to fit in with events described in Revelation.

C- Spiritualizing- This type of interpretation I also disagree with, as those who believe this type, need to spiritualize all of God's Word in order to make any part of It coincide with the rest of Scripture, as everything is taken at figurative or a metaphor.

As such, they claim John spoke only of a spiritual conflict and not a physical or earthly one. Most "amillenialists"- (no Rapture and no 1,000 year reign on earth by Christ, plus more) and "postmillenialists"- ( Believe the world is continually improving and we are close to ushering in the Kingdom).

The degrading of the human race just during the 20th century alone, with several major wars that occured and an estimated 160 million deaths to communistic dictators I suggest prove otherwise hehe.

D- Preterist- This type of interpretation has claimed Revelation written by John, was done so before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD, and refers to events going on in John's time. Heres the problem-

Neither of the Roman emporers Nero or Domitian, could fill the requirements as noted in Revelation concerning the anti-christ. Nor could the defiling of the Temple for 42 months or disasterous events to happen world wide be found to fit back then.

Point 2- The futurist interpretation also takes God's Word in basically orderly fashion, for the Books of the Bible.

Yes, so as with the Old Test. orders of Books, people have claimed they aren't in order. Oh, prove it. Hehe, the problem- The general Books showing the progressive Teachings of God are in chronological order, but, God also included some Teachings of more detail, historically and event wise, such as I&II Kings, Judges and one or two others, to give His True Children of the future, more solid understandings about the main charactors mentioned, events that happened and greater understanding of why for such.

But, that was also back during a time when Isreal cried out for a King to be over them, as being used to living under a King- (Pharoh, of Egypt), for how many centuries in captivity.

But as for the rest of God's Word, all other Books are considered as in chronlogical order, up thru Revelation. And since each of the Books with the except of those I mentioned are all clearly written in chronological order, why should Revelation then be taken any different? It should not.

Now, here is what I call a "clincher verse", which shows clear trigger words to understand how Revelation should be taken. The verse is- Rev. 1:19- "Write all the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;"

Notice he is told to write of things he's already saw, then what is happening now, and then, what will happen in the future.

From this, we find that, only thru the first 3 chapters, it relates to things having gone on in John's time- his past, to his present- (Letters to the Church's) all names of Churches God had established thru them while in thier ministries as Apostles. But, you don't find any reference to them, from chap 4 on.

The futurist interpretation takes Revelation as literally written for what It says It means, but also the events as in chronolgiccal order, which I believe. Why?

Because as with myself during ministry years back, my research of the "Last Days". God brought me across several documentations of Early Church Leaders who spoke these same beliefs, of which I am more inclined to believe than any others, but also found some major Christian Leaders of today, such as Hal Linsey, Tim LaHaye, Jack Van Impe, Grant Jeffries, among others, also teach nearly full identical teachings of the Early Church, as well as having documented in thier tapes, CDs, papers and more, references they've made to several of the same and more, Early Church Leaders I had come across, as well as the Jewish Encyclopedia Judaica and other sources some of which God lead me to as well in that respect.

The "futurist" believers, believe that Scriptures, such as Jhn 14:1-3- Rom. 8:19- I Cor. 1:7-8,15:51-53,16:22- Phil. 3:2-21, 4:5- Col. 3:4- I Thess. 1:10,2:19, 4:13-18, 5:9,23- II Thess. 2:1-3- Rev. 4:1, that there is a Rapture for sure, but also that it will happen before the Trib. Period of the reign of the anti-christ.

That the Rapture will clearly happen before the Trib. Period by virtue of clear statements as such- II Thess. 2:1-3- "and by our gathering together unto Hm"- "Let no man decieve you by any means; for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

This clearly shows, there must be an apostate from the Christian faith, of a perentage of believers first, for a time, then the anti-christ- "son of perdition" will be revealed, then the "our gathering together unto Him"- (Christ)- Rapture, will occur.

ok hehe, enough for tonite. Will continue this once again, at a later time.

God Bless!!


Posted by: Christian Commando

ok, part 3 hehe-

Now, here is another clear example of why it is just as important for God's children to be watching for Christ's Return, as is the rest of God's Word.

Look back at the time God brought John the Baptist into the world to pave the way for Christ's soon appearing, that first time. What happened?

God supplied everythng thru John that was needed, for the people, of that time, to learn how to be prepared and know and understand, when the Messiah, the sent one, annointed one, would appear.

But... did they listen? No. Instead, the majority of them actually stood against Christ during His 3 1/2 year ministry on earth and time with man.

How many of them had not learned the Scriptures in true context or understood them correctly to be able to recognize the signs given of Christ's first time on earth?

But, God knew this and foretold of it, saying that His First Chosen would reject His Son and cry out for His crucifiction. The majority did, to a point, He was.

God then, foretells, how.by the earlier examples I gave, that when rejected by His own beloved covenant people, God would then open Salvation up to the rejected, unclean races of the earth- the "pagans"- Gentiles. God would then invite them, as many as will come, to accept them as His adopted Children as well.

Again tho, He once again, continues to foretell, many shall come, but few will enter. Thus, just as there were Gentiles crying out with Jews at Christ's first coming for His crucifixtion, there will be the same rejection at His Second Return.

Now, by the two witnesses and all new converts of the Trib Period, there will be quite a number converted. Yet, compared to total world population, it will still be a low number.

Yet, just as in those days of Christ's first coming, we also see things going the same way now, just before His Return. As with the story of the 10 Virgins and Kings Wedding Celebration for his son, we see people once again, engrossed in worldly goings on and personal life things, more than seeking and following God as they should, to prepare for Christ's Second coming. And this includes a good part of the "Body of Christ".

It's not so much thier fault, as it is satan's, for his influence over people to become more involved with worldly things and personal stuff than seeking God as we should. I won't say much, as that happens to me as well at times. I'm just as guilty of that as any others in this world.

Thus, it is our responcibility I believe, as God's Children, as Rachel R had related to, to prepare our lives, in all aspects, to the return of Christ, that we not miss His calling of us to Glory in the presence of God. And also, to help others understand how they need to be prepared, and attending to His general work-service for Him, set before us more stringently.

Living on this earth, in this physical world, is but a learning ground and step of preparation, for the moment, God will send Christ to call upon all His True Children to be gathered around Him and the Trinity, for eternity one day in our future.

Pastor Jerry is just one Pastor of many, who God has used as a vessel to pur out His- God's Spirit upon this earth, as God clearly declares He would in the "Last Days". So, let us stand up for God and help others to recognize the sign God gave us and thru Christ, to help others prepare and be watchful for Christ's return, included with reading, learning and working to live according to the rest of God's Word as well.

God Bless!!