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Heres a good one for all of you-
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Posted by: Christian Commando
There re two main doctrinal beliefs about God's Word taght, with sub doctrinal teachings for supporting both. I'll share the two main ones and would like responces from anyone who believes hich one and why, Scripturally based.
Amillenialism- No, Rapture, no millenial reign of Christ on earth plus no belief in "Dispensations"- (times or Periods man goes thru).
Millenialism- A belief in a Rapture, millenial reign on earth of Christ and do believe in "Dispensations".
Have fun!! if have questions for more detail, ask.
God Bless!!
Posted by: akabezalel
I believe in the Pan-Millenia... in other words I believe it will all "Pan" out!
It makes no difference to me when Jesus comes back, I just know He is coming and that is all I need to know. The differing theories are just man trying to wrap their heads around God and failing miserably.
Posted by: Christian Commando
Well, I also go along with view point to an extent hehe, but I also believe and try to follow what God and Christ teaches us-
To be looking for It, to prepare ourselves, to know and recognize the signs of the times.
God nor Christ would've taught such things if we were not to care or just believe It will happen and leave the rest to God, without needing to seek to understand such things.
God nor Christ has ever taught to just pay attention to some of thier guidance, but all of It. Why? Because, even the most seeming meanial parts of God's Teachings, are all building blocks of Christ's original statement of what Peter said- "Thou art the Christ", the annointed one, the sent one."
Then Jesus declares- "Upon this Rock, I shall build My Church". On Peter's statement- words. Thus God gave us all His Word, from man's beginning to now, from Old to New, for us to follow every jot, every title of what God declares.
Thanks, I appreciate your input immensely.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Christian Commando
Ok, lets get started-
Historical Pre-Millenialism- This was the Early Church belief system. While it did believe and teach of the "6 day- 6,000 yr" belief for man's existance and for Christ's return, the Rapture, Trib. Period and Christ's Millenial reign on earth, they did not teach of the belief we consider now, of- "Dispensations"- (time periods man would go thru).
Amillenialism- also started going around, its documented as claiming St. Augustine did this, back in Early Church years. And sadly enough, it was widely accepted for a time. Yet, this proved not to be founded, as it stems from a spiritualizing of God's Word-
1- God's Kingdom is here on earth now in the world today because-
2- Christ's millenial reign is going on right now in Heaven and-
3- Thru the Bible, Holy Spirit and Christianity on earth
They believe the current Church age will end abruptly when Christ returns in the sky above the earth. This, is when they believe the "Rapture" will happen. God's children will then be taken to Heaven where they will "adopt" spiritual bodies.
The signs Christ gives of the Trib Period, being in the "Last Days" and more, as in Matt. 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 chapters, and covering most of Revelation are considered as already happened or should be taken symbolically, or not literally.
Dispensational Pre-Millenialism-
This belief is what is most popular today in Christianity. This system was considered as heresy in Early Church times. And was quelled til the 1800s in which it became popular once more thru people like John Darby, Edward Erving.
The early 1900s saw this belief system most widely accepted by Fundamentalists and many other Evangelicals. And they believe the same has the historical Premillenialists of Early Church days, that Christ will return to earth for the 1,000 year reign, then the final judgement Day is after that.
Now, both the Historical and Dispensational Premillenialists believe in the "Rapture" also. But, there claims to be proof of "post" millenial Rapture- (after Christ's millenial riegn), compared to the clear proof of a "Pre" millenial Rapture.
Again, as with the spiritualizing or symbolizing methods, this can be accounted for, but not without distorting literal declrations of God and Christ of signs given of the "Last Days".
I personally go along with the Dispensational PreMillenial belief system, as God clearly shows He went thru time periods to create the Heaven and earth, not to mention steps to create man, then gave Prophecies about time period related to Isreals captivity of Gentile rule, along with signs we would see of the coming Messiah and a new Covenant with man, and Christ giving man signs to know when we would be in the "Last Days" just before His return.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Christian Commando
Alright, now, maybe some people do not think something like this subject is important to deal with. But, what happens if the way we interprete God's Word is changed from one method over to another, where it changes God's original meaning and understanding of His Word ?
If you look closely at the difference between Dispensational and Historical Millenial teachings, you'll find little difference outside the fact "periods of time" are given to specific events of the past present or future of man, where AMillenialism does away with some events or combines some together, which God's Word does not show.
I wouldn't be so concerned about such things, if not for the fact some of God's Children, because of distorted teachings or beliefs, will miss out on some very important things to happen for them in the future, if not paying attention or watching for or expecting them.
Look at the story of the 10 Virgins- Parable of Christ. All 10 Virgins knew thier Lord was coming. But, Jesus also shows, that because 5 were not prepared and were side tracked by other activities, they missed His meeting, while the other 5 who were watching, seeking and prepared for that, did meet with thier Lord.
This clearly shows, even if we belong to God and know Christ's voice and follow Him, we can miss out meeting Him, if we are not watching for and seeking this time, not prepared for when this could happen- (Rapture), because we are too busy with other things.
Now, this is not for His Bodily return, everyone knows when that will be, at the end of the 7 year reign of the anti-christ.
No, this refers to the Rapture, of which Christ declares, we need to be watching, expecting and prepared, as He will come for us then, as a thief in the night- unexpected and unanounced.
This why I view such a topic as important to be shared and understood for best understanding to not miss out on any major events God has instore for His "Body of Christ" still on earth as yet.
God Bless!!
Posted by: Rmartel
I myself have wondered about this then I received a christmas book called the 'Endtime Delusions"
In this book the writer uses:
Preterists
Futurists
and Historists
It is already lent out to someone else but it does have challenging thought provoking ideas based on scripture as well. Not to say I agree with all of it .It is well worth reading. What I have been led to believe is that there will be a massive outpouring in diverse places all over the world. Smith wiggleworth spoke of an outpouring in Canada equivalent to the water that pours into Canada from Niagra Falls.
I believe this massive outpouring will be similar to the miracles Jesus performed in Capernaum only much greater with his children fully manifested
without spot nor wrinkle as the word says and oil will come out of their lamps
This same oil that breaks the yokes of bondage and sets the captives free.
Those who have returned to there first love as written in REV;Yes one great
and mighty door open for all mankind that all might be saved with his people having the Holy Spirit without measure to usher in the bride;
that is mention in Eph. 4 and these children finialy recieving their long awaited inheritance and no longer knowing in part1 Cor 13 but knowing one and other fully. No more deception.Knowing who is on there team and who is the weeds that the enemy planted at night according to his word.
Then after a time much like Capernaum the Groom will return and the doors will be shut and the five wise virgins will enter in with him and like in the times of Noah there will be great wailing and crying and great nashing of teeth. Now this is where I get a feeling of the rapture.
Now the reason I compare it to Capernaum is well read the word.
I beleive Jesus gave me this word.
Mat 11:23Andthou,Capernaum,which art exalteduntoheaven,shaltbebrought downtohell:forifthemighty works,which have been doneinthee,hadbeendoneinSodom,itwouldhaveremaineduntilthis day.
At the point of this great outpouring the enemy may restrict people by saying for example there is a terrible virous attacking the people something to that effect and for your own good you are limited to where you are at; or restricted to certain cities.And satan knows his time is limited.
"fears of men" As Jesus spoke thou their words are on my lips they are not in their hearts and they teach the precepts of men and the fears of men
But since when have walls stopped God remember Jerico
I also have wondered about the 10 virgins many a times.
The five to me are those that do lip service .
And have confessed Jesus is Lord but have not recieved this in their hearts
thus not believing this truth.
Even the demons believe in Jesus but that in itself does not save them.
They also besought him to enter into the swine but that did not save them either.
So from all I am taught there will be a great outpouring before I leave and I have seen glimpses of this.
I still am seeking a filling of the Holy spirit like Smith wigglesworth only I beleive all will have it Eph 4 the fulness of christ. Like those searching i am continually learning and until 1Cor 12 manifests as 1Cor 13 I do the best I can. That is the body knowing each part like themselves; even as christ knows each one of us.
If you Disagree pray for me but I find like David inquiring of the lord the best.
Rmartel
Posted by: Christian Commando
Yes, I also have several books that also speak of these 3 beliefs. Those are actually 4 views subdivided within the "Millenial Reign" view here on earth.
The futurist view was the most accepted by the Early Church. Now, while you'll never see them label "Rapture" events as the "Rapture", they still speak of this event being seperate from Christ's bodily return. More terms they used were a "calling up", "come up", meeting with Christ, "calling of the Saints to meet Jesus", etc.
But there is also the historical, spiritualizing and preterist views.
The historical don't work too well, as those believing this, figured the Revelation events happened according to past historical events. This makes for a jumbled mess tho, in trying to fit disasterous events of Revelation to past historical ones that did not happen in order to Revelations' events.
The Preterist view of Revelation, claims John wrote Revelation before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. But historical documentations show it wasn't till after this that John had actually written Revelation.
Thi could not be, as Scriptures declare the whole world shall see the Gospel preached before Jesus returns. And considering Nero or Domitian as the "anti-christ" could not be, for the Apostles had not covered the whole earth, but only that much, which the existing type of travel allowed for them to reach for distance at that time, which only covers the majority of the Middle East and across Europe.
The Spiritualizing version claims Revelation to be taken as figurative or metaphorical, not for literal events. This is "amillenialism" and "postmillenialism".
"Amillenialism" held to beliefs everything witnessed in Revelation was all in the spirit realm, not on earth. Thus, Christ's return for the millenial reign happens in Heaven, not on earth.
"Postmillenialism" teaches that the world is actually getting better and better, not worse and we are about to usher in the Kingdom. (Even tho Jesus speaks clearly how evil will wax worse).
Jesus told the Disciples, that once God's Children recieved the "Holy Ghost and power", the "Body of Christ" would see even more miracles accomplished than He had done. Yet God declares thru the Apostles, the world could not contain all the writings needed to cover all miracles Christ had done.
But we have seen where the "Body" has left behind some beliefs originally taught and mracles done by Christ, which is why God declares of this incredible outpouring of His Spirit. To revive the "Body" once more in expectation of Christ's return.
I would tend to say, from evidence of revival break outs in divrese places already, and plenty of them, Which includes Pastor Jerry, who God has used as a vessel for revival starting out in the US MidWest. God's Spirit being poured out has started. But only just begun.
Well, as for Capernaum, I wouldn't use that myself, as that is a description of a town which will suffer more, for rejecting the miracles Christ did in it, thus being condemned and punished worse than Sodom, for the fact Sodom was evil but never heard the Word preached or saw miracles done in it.
Christ did "mighty works" wherever He went, except those places He spoke of not being able to because of thier unbelief. As for that part, Jesus knew thier hearts, thus never tried to do miracles, knowing they would not accept the Truth. Where Capernaum must've had people who could've accepted the Truth, but still rejected It anyway, being the reason Christ did the miracles to give those who would think and make a choice, the chance to decide.
10 Virgins story- I differ on the assessment the 5 later rejected were not really Saved. The reason is, its a depiction of the Rapture. Why? Jesus speaks of how He comes unannounced, yet those 10 were prepared and waiting. When the Lord's call went out, they got up late and went out to meet Him. But, the five that did not take enough oil, had to go for more. Thus, they missed out and were rejected.
This is a picture of believers who have God's Word, have the Holy Spirit, yet they are more concerned with daily life than with God. Thus, when Christ comes to call us for the Rapture, some will not pay heed to that calling, for more attention being on other things in thier lives.
Then later, as seen in the story of the King's Wedding party where the covenant friends reject thier King's invitations, when judgement comes, they will claim, hey, I did this, thought that or helped others, the church I go to etc, but will be rejected by God. Same as the Lord rejecting those 5 Virgins that came back later to be included- (Judgement Day), and are rejected.
So those 5 Virgins that were left out were True Children of God- (heard the call of the Lord), but just were not paying attention as they should've been to be properly prepared for His coming.
As for the Legion Jesus cast into the swine and out of the man, it was so they would not end up in Hell, trapped and tormented there.
Truth is Rmartel, we can only learn that which God knows we are capable of and need to keep reading and searching God's Word for more understanding. You have done quite well in your explainations. Your point was very clear.
But only God has all the answers. Its up to us to keep striving to continue to learn and grow in and thru God.
God Bless!!
Posted by: JeriRose12
You quote this as a pouplar belife:
Amillenialism- No, Rapture, no millenial reign of Christ on earth plus no belief in "Dispensations"- (times or Periods man goes thru).
But this is not what I just ran into. I ran into where they believe in no acutal rapture off the the earth (the word rapture is really the translation of a word that refers to God hiding us or keeping us safe during the tribulation, down here on earth). But they DO believe in the 1000 year reign. They think Christ is coming to meet us HERE ON EARTH and set up that 1000 year reign.
The Bible is plain about one thing: there is no secret rapture, as in the Left Behind series says the Christians will suddenly be gone. Because it says at His second return EVERY EYE shall see Him, He will flash like lightning from the east to the west. . . . But, then, what do I do with the scripture about Him coming like a thief in the night? 
These sound like two different events. As if there is a catching up into Heaven, where all Christians just disappear off the earth. And then, later, He returns WITH THE SAINTS, on the white horse, and that's when He's seen by EVERY EYE...and sets up the mellinial reign. Hey, I think I just explained something to myself. Maybe I DO know what I believe!
(If some of you explained this above, sorry, haven't read entire thread yet.)
~JeriRose~ 
Posted by: JeriRose12
1Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. 11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
(1 Thessalonians 5:2 - 11)
This is why I constantly get after people to live right if they are not....because we don't want to be caught unawares. So no matter what the real truth is of the various views, the truth is: BE READY!!! Whether He's catching us away into the wilderness to keep us safe or catching us up to Heaven, why miss it, because we are living carelessly?
As I wrote in a song:
No man knows the hour, no man knows the day
That Jesus is returning to catch His bride away
So you'd better get ready....
(well, something like that, would have to look it up. I believe it was called "Are You Ready to Go?")
36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(Matthew 24:36 - 51)
I read an intepretaion of this that says the "taken" means taken away to judgement, because when you read the Noah and the flood story, those who perished were referred to as "taken away." So "taken" is not the rapture, as in being taken away to Heaven. Not saying it's what I believe. But in Matthew 24 it does say His coming will be spetacular, then it goes into this parable about the servants being watchful.
32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33Be on guard! Be alert[f]! You do not know when that time will come. 34It's like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with his assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
35"Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!' "
(Mark 9:13 - 37)
35"Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. 39But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
41Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?"
42The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
(Luke 12:35 -48)
Perhaps, "thief in the night" is referring to unpreparedness rather than it being secretive. I keep thinking "thief in the night" means a stealthy, sneaky no-one knows about it until after it happens (as opposed to the EVERY EYE seeing Him passages). Maybe it means the same way the thief in the night would strike with an element of surprise, The Lord will return with the same element of surprise....as in we are not expecting it, thus we aren't ready for His return. Perhaps, it does not mean it's quietly taking us out so no-one realizes until a bunch of us are gone. . . .
I did not fully grasp the significance of having gone to the Assemblies of God as a child, and they strongly teach the pre-trib rapture, in which we go up to Heaven for a period. Then, we return later for the thousand year reign. Then, at age seventeen, my family switched to the Glad Tidings church, and Glad Tidings believes that we will go through at least some of the tribulation. I read today that Glad Tidings came out of the movement that doesn't believe in a rapture up to Heaven. But, when I attended, the pastor did teach being caught up to Heaven. Also, though, that particular church had broken with the Glad Tidings denomination, due to some doctrinal differences, so maybe that was one of the differences.
So, though, I haven't wrapped my head and, hopefully spirit, around all of this, the bottom line is clear:
BE READY FOR THE LORD'S RETURN AT ALL TIMES!!!
~JeriRose~
Posted by: Rmartel
Thanks Christian Commando for your input It appears you have studied and rightly deserve respect for this.
I may clarify that Matt 11:23 was something the lord gave me .
What I did not clarify is that all people will be given an opportunity to repent
with the workings of a tremendous annointing in this final outpouring and then once this is done the doors are closed like with the case of the 10 virgins.
By the way the scholars cannot find where Capernaum is today.
I share the same thoughts that JeriRose 12 expressed and wrote about one shall be taken and one left in the feild . The reason why is the picture I got of this was like the floods that happened in eastern canada where one would be on a roof top and some would be taken away and carried away by the flood.And the one on a roof top would not go down but wait to get rescued.
Now God said he would never destroy the world by a flood .And gave us the rainbow as a sign of this.
But I believe a great flood of Athiesm will come into play.
But God will raise up a standard as his word says .
Satan comes in as a flood but God will raise up a standard.
Thanks for all your sharing and will be praying about your comments
as they are important in these times.
Rmartel
Posted by: Christian Commando
JeriRose-
As for "amillenial" teachings, I'm speaking of when it first was taught back in early centuries of the churchera in alexandria Egypt from some university there. And this was the original teachings that St. Augustine of the fifth century AD also accepted, which is where I had come across in my studies years ago.
But remember, just as with christianity, this doctrine has had several centuries in which others have been able to change beliefs of this as well. So, what was originally taught at first, may not be the same as what is by now.
Believe what God teaches you directly from His Word as such, when differs from teachings not Biblically based.
Post #9-
Matt. 24:15-31 describes events going on and getting worse to Christ's return, but in vs 40-41, people will be working together and some will disappear right next to those left behind. What else could that be but a reference to the Rapture.
At Christ's return, every eye, saved and unsaved see Him coming but Jesus also comes right down to earth, not needing to call us up. And since there is no judgement described of people before His 1,000 year reign, that belief people are called to jugement is not biblically based.
It is not until after Jesus' 1,000 year reign, when Satan is loosed for a short time, this allows those born and raised during Christ's reign to decide who to follow, God or Satan. Then comes the judgement of all.
But, consider this about Noah's day- those people had over 100 years to repent and turn back to God while Noah built the Ark, before judgement was carried out, with Noah showing them what God directed. Same Principle here-
The anti-christ shall have his moment of reigning over the earth, but God will show His wrath upon them in order to show His Word true,along with Elisha and Elijah as witnesses proclaiming His Word as well during that time, and given them the chance to turn to Him and away from Satan before final judgement.
No, Jesus declares My sheep know My voice and I know them and they follow Me. And an old Test Scripture Declares Jesus will return with ten thousands of His Saints. And lastly, how could there be a marriage of the Bride to the Lamb in Heaven- Rev. 19:6-9, which happens before Jesus' bodily return to earth- Rev. 19:11 to Chap. 20, if we are not Raptured beforehand?
I know this, if we aren't watching for Christ's return in the Rapture, many are going to hear His call to them but not recognize It for being so busy with other things. They will then not heed the call and answer in recognition to it.
I'd rather be one returning with Jesus at His bodiy return, than having gone thru the Trib, if live, to have to watch Him coming. Besides, how do you explain this situation-
I Cor. 15:50-54, where Paul speaks of corrupton taking on incorruption, mortal taking on immortality, why, if we are not Raptured but have to wait till Christ returns for His reign on this old sin filled and tainted world?
If staying here, we would not have to be changed. Right? God never says anything about removing the sin from this world or taint of sin from it at Christ's return. Thats the reason later, after Jesus' reign and judgement is over, God brings about a new Heaven, a new Earth and a new Jerusalem. All sin is now gone from there on.
Rmartel-
Thank you, but God is the one who desrves the credit, He gave me the interest, drive and consistant questions from others years ago to get me going in these studies. God has spent nearly 30 years preaching and Teaching such things thru me while constantly prodding me to study.
And get this- All thru school, I hated to study, except for Science, as biology and chemistry were my majors, even into Bible School.
As for your clarification, thank you. You are right. At the Rapture, Christ will call, but for those who won't heed that voice, they will miss out and be included with the lost then.
The story of the 10 Virgins shows, all 10 were covenant children of the Lord, waiting for his call, but when the call came, 5 of them were busy with other things and could not go with the other 5. So, God's Children need to be sure, thier worldly attractions do not distract them from dropping everything and answering Christ's call when it comes.
Even Christ Himself speaks of people not supposed to worry about this or that when the time comes, but to let it all go and just answer Him. Why?
I Thess 4:16-17- "For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the Arc Angel, and with the Trump of God;"
Pretty clear Christ is calling to us at that time, thus we must answer the call.
"And the dead in Christ shall rise first: 7- Then we which are alive and remain, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:"
Notice Christ never comes to earth but only the firmament- (atmosphere) where clouds are hehe.
Oh, Capernaum, well, according to archeological documentations of digs and from Scriptural references, it is believed the "site" of Capernaum may have been found. But, because several other biblical sites were also, but had later settlements built over the top of thier ruins, it will take some time before they find out if this ancient city found, was built over the top of Capernaum.
And last I'd read about this as well was like 12-15 years ago, so have no idea what they ever found out.
I've learned not to say ya or nay at any time until sure proof has been confirmed. Lets just say my mouth got me more discrediting as a young Minister in the first 10-12 years jumping the gun on claims of finds of biblical remains, only to find out later, they were not. Thats why, tho I hated history in high School, Biblical History became another major for me in life and Ministry.
The flood of Satan- Well, just remember too, this "standard of God" you spoke of, is what God called the- "pouring out of His Spirit upon all flesh" in the latter days. God and Christ declared that men will dream dreams and some will see visions, children will prophecy, etc. So your right on about that.
Actually, it will be Satan who does it at the same time God does His, in order to imitate God.
You are so welcome.
God Bless both of you, very inspired responces.
Posted by: JeriRose12
What do you make of the scripture (Revelation 12) that says a woman is in childbirth and bears a manchild (or male son), and the manchild is snatched away (could sound like the rapture) and up to the throne of God. Then, the woman is led to the wilderness (or desert) and hidden there and taken care of by God for 1,260 days. Who is this woman that God hides? Some say it's the church and the male child snatched up is the Christians alive at Christ's return. But that they are taken out of the church, because many in the church are not truly Christians. If this is the case, and they (this woman who could be the church) are hidden and kept safe, who are the others who are not safe and beheaded, etc.? Just the average sinners out there who never attended church? Or I wonder is this woman isn't Israel and he will keep them safe during this time? I can never figured out what this passage is about. Any ideas? Scriptures that confirm would be great.
~JeriRose~
Posted by: JeriRose12
13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
This takes place after He first hid her in the wilderness and took care of her for the 1,260 days. But the key words here could be "went off to make ware agaisnt the rest of her offspring--those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus." As if the woman does not necesarily obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Is this the remnant of Israel, the all of Israel that shall be saved in the last days? Because didn't Israel give birth to the man child (God's sons who were snatched away in the rapture)? As we come down and decend from the natural Isreal through the promise to Abraham that in him or through his seed all the nations of the earth will be blessed? And Mary being the Israeli woman who bore Jesus would be representative of the whole of Israel here?
~JeriRose~
Posted by: Christian Commando
JeriRose-
Very good, but you left out the Scriptures after Satan first appeared to try and destroy Jesus,- (At his birth by Herod after all children to age two, then also when Jesus died on the cross but then rose again)- v 5- "And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God, and to His Throne."
First, Rev. 2:5 states He was to rule, so it hasn't come as yet. 2nd- It declares Christ was taken up unto God and His Throne- (Ascension after rising from the dead).
V 6 is where then, God gives the Isreal- flight- (protection) away from the Dragon. Thus, in the future, Satan will have all out war against God and be completely removed from all Heavens and unto the earth.
Because the anti-christ- (1st beast), is seen being wounded as killed-(13:3), then revived, its Satan who incarnates him after being cast to earth, as he did Judas Ascariot.
In Rev. 12:13, the "woman" is Isreal persecuted 14- But given a way by God for them to get away from the persecution. 15-16, the anti-christ leads all out hunting down of any converts of God world wide, 16- then calls for the last meeting own at
Jerusalem where the last major war will break out between all armies of the north and East who meet there.
Rev. 12 is basically a historical event Chapter. Rev. 13 is more a "personal event" Chapter filling in other aspects of the historical, with pesonal operating of the anti-christ. Where 12 showed more what will happen in the Heavens.
Check out 12:17, 17:12-14, 19:11- Chap. 20:1. All 3 refer to the end of Satan's reign thru the anti-christ with that last major war. So, particular Chapters show many different things that will happen quite often, but from diverse aspects- historical events to particular people, groups or nations refered to.
God Bless!!