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Demanding things from God

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Posted by: Frederik

Does God like it when we come to him with bible quotes and then demand from him that fulfills them ? I mean the bible says that Jesus also died for our diseases, does this mean we can come to God and say: Okay God in verse XY it says that Jesus died for our diseases and now I'm here to remind you of this promise and I demand my brother to be healed....

Is this okay or unfriendly towards God ?


Posted by: babam

Can' t imagine any Christian expecting anything outside of the Lords will. I believe that there are three answers to prayer Yes, No and Wait. His ways are higher than our ways. It is good to speak The Word of God when asking for healings as it says somewhere [I lost my concordance!] that Gods word does not return to Him empty, something along those lines.
God will not be manipulated.
There is however a tradition or maybe its scriptural of standing on the word. Cfan {Christ for all nations} have a video of this man who died and was in a morgue. His wife stood on the word. The man was raised from the dead at a crusade not unlike one that JG is going to do.


Posted by: jedijeb

I dont believe we can demand anything of God, it says " Ask and you will receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened" . If I go to my Dad and say " I claim the money in your pocket because I want it to buy a car" well my Dad would say " You do what! I dont think so" But if I ask" Dad may I have some money to buy a car, I have need of one ?" then if he has it and thinks it is in my best interest he would give it to me, or help me find a job to make the money to buy the car. The Bible also says we ask and do not have because we ask with wrong motives to waste it on our pleasures. Sure it says God will give us the desires of our heart, but those desires must be in line with His will. If we seek God guidance in all we do, He will bless us with more than we can imagine. Even healing is done when it is to the glory of God. It requires faith also. But God must get the glory or we shouldnt expect anything we ask for. God has given us a full measure of grace from the moment we accept Christ as our Savior but He asks that we surrender ourselves to His will to receive all that He has for us. If He didn't require obedience to receive the best He has to offer then that would not be good for us, we would just be very blessed evil people. God gives us what is best for us, not what we want, if He knows we will misuse something He isnt going to give it to us, if He did He wouldnt love us much would He. God tells us to ask for certain things, like for Him to call to others to bring them to salvation, for the daily needs we have such as food and clothing, for wisdom, for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in our lives, for faith.

Stay focused on God and seek the Guidance of the Holy Spirit always and You will know what to ask of God. GOd wants to give us all the best He has to give us, but we must be centered in His will to gain it.


Posted by: JeriRose12

I like to tell God "Your Word says...." and I quote the scripture to Him. Just like going to Your Dad (as many kids do), "but, Dad, you said we could! (or) you promised!" I heard a really good sinairo laid out once by Jaunita Bynum. She said you can be down on your face crying out to God all night long. The angels keep asking God, "Can I go now with the answer to their prayer?" God keeps shaking his head, "No." Then, suddenlty, you recall a scripture (which may be what led you to ask in the first place), and you say, "But, God, Your Word says....by Your stripes I am healed....You will bless me financially for paying my tithe....You will give wisdom to those who ask...." As soon as we start praying His Word, the Father nods to the angels to send our answer. God is bound to His Word, because it can not return void and he said He was not a man that He should lie.

19"God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
(Numbers 23:19)

So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11)

If that's the case, why doesn't the answer come as soon as we stand on God's Word? Well, in Danniels's case, the angel had to fight a mighty demon. Also, there is sin and the free will of people. If we are praying for Joe Blow to get saved, but Joe Blow is being willfully sinful....then, even though God may send the Holy Spirit to convict, as the Word says He will, we may have to keep on praying and praying....according to the scripture "Pray without ceasing." Or these kind may not come out but by prayer and fasting. So, though His Word is true, we might have to fast that that Word is fulfilled in our lives. Other scriptures say we are sent trials and afflictions to test us, to purify us into gold. So, even though we stand on the promise of scripture, God may leave that trial there for the developement of our character. Besides if we could just quote a scripture like a magician waving a magic wand and uttering his magic words, what would we do with scriptures like the story of the unjust judge or the friend who came to ask for bread? How about asking, seeking, knocking continually? These are in the Bible, too.

5 And He said to them, "Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, "Friend, lend me three loaves; 6for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him'; 7and he will answer from within and say, "Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you'? 8I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.

(2) 9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11If a son asks for bread[4] from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (Luke 11:9-13)

1 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2saying: "There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, "Get justice for me from my adversary.' 4And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, "Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me."'
6Then the Lord said, "Hear what the unjust judge said. 7And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:1-8)

I like that last part: "Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he really find faith on the earth?" It seems, to God faith is shown by a person coming to Him over and over on the same need, never once wavering or giving up, even though the answer seems a long time coming. If we could just wave our magic wand (The Word) and get an answer--poof!--every time, why would faith be required? Everyone would get saved just to have the healing, the money, the blessings....What need would we have of "He that endures to the end will be saved"? I wonder if that isn't the whole purpose of all those promises? God is testing us, to see if we have faith. We see that in the Word but not in our life. So what are we going to do? Give up? Quit? Yell? Scream? Holler? Say "It isn't fair!" Or trust that our loving Father will answer according to His Word in His time?

~JeriRose~


Posted by: Frederik

Cfan {Christ for all nations} have a video of this man who died and was in a morgue. His wife stood on the word. The man was raised from the dead at a crusade not unlike one that JG is going to do.

This is funny. I also have this video and what the woman said about reminding God of his promise impressed me. This is why I posted this question.


Another problem is, how can I have faith when I don't know if it's going to happen ? I mean I can pray for my family to be saved but do I know wether they'll be saved ? God will not turn them into christians against their will, this means that even if God wants to grant my prayer he cannot do it if my family doesn't want it. How can I have faith in something so uncertain ? I can have faith in God, but I cannot have faith in something which is so uncertain, can I ?


Posted by: jedijeb

Frederik, You are right that God won't make someone become a Christian against their will. That is where you have to look at the scripture as a whole in context and not as a single verse. If we ask that God send witnesses to them and the Holy Spirit to them to draw them to Him He will, but if we just pray " God make them saved" He won't do that.

There are promises that are universal and ones that were specific. An Eighty year old woman can ask God for a child claiming the promise" I will make you a mother in your old age" but that was a promise made to Sarah not every woman. While if God sees fit to grant that request He can and will, but it was not a promise to every woman that she would have a child when she was eighty years old.

1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For even hereunto were ye called; because Christ suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps;
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth;
23 Who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepard and bishop of our souls.

I know many people quote this scripture as a promise that God will heal us of anything and I do believe that God heals us, but all I can see in this scripture is reference to spiritual healing, or in otherwords that our dead souls are healed and made alive by the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross for the removal of our sins. It does not mention physical healing and can only be taken as such if you ignore all but a small portion of the entire scripture. I know many will disagree with me on this but I cant see that promise here when I read the whole scripture, and even in the Matthew Henry comentary on this verse there is no mention of physical healing promised here. There are however many other verses promising physical healing such as the woman with the issue of blood touching the robes of Jesus, just to name one. We must be careful in how we quote scripture because we can end up standing on a promise that is not there. This is why we must rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit to lead us into what to pray, for with Him as our guide we will know what to ask for. Many of these promises come with the condition that we must be totally committed and submitted to God's will. God promised many time to prosper the nation of Isreal, but when they strayed from His will they were torn down and led off into captivity until they repented and turned back to Him.

The Bible must stand as a whole and we can only know the meaning of a passage when it is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit for the meaning is hidden to those who don't know Jesus as thier Savior. I myself pray scripture and ask for the promises God lays upon my heart that I should consider as given to me. I believe God promised me the desires of my heart, but only when those desires are in line with His will for my life, because He says I ask and receive not because I ask amiss, but when I ask following His guidance I will and do receive. I sometimes find myself praying for one certain thing constantly, and even when I want to pray for other things or other people's needs I just can't, but when I submit to His will and pray those prayers things happen, then I am allowed to pray for other things. Obedience to God is what makes prayer powerful, submitting to His will and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide our every moment brings fulfillment of our petitions before God. Look at Paul's life, He gave all to God and was blessed abundantly but did he ever have a great mansion to live in, or a golden charriot to ride to his ministry in? Paul had every blessing he wanted, because he wanted only what God wanted for his life. If God lays it on your heart to pray a certain scripture then pray it and He will honor it, but be sure to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit in it.


Posted by: Frederik

It does not mention physical healing and can only be takes as such if you ignore all but a small portion of the entire scripture.

But the bible says that we are healed by his strypes.
Jesus also carried our diseases. Somehow it annoys me that I also have to fight with diseases cause Jesus already carried them. This is like paying twice for something, it makes no sense. So why am I not healed ?


Posted by: jedijeb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederik
It does not mention physical healing and can only be takes as such if you ignore all but a small portion of the entire scripture.

But the bible says that we are healed by his strypes.
Jesus also carried our diseases. Somehow it annoys me that I also have to fight with diseases cause Jesus already carried them. This is like paying twice for something, it makes no sense. So why am I not healed ?


Frederik, I was talking about that one verse which I feel is misquoted too often. There are many examples of Jesus healing in the Bible, and many instances of the Deciples healing through prayer and the laying on of hands. I have not seen anywhere that the Bible says we won't get sick, however I do believe that our health can be effected by our walk with God. Sometimes He will let us get sick to show us His power of healing. If you became a Christian and from that moment on you never had any health problems, never had to work to get the things you need to live, never had anything happen in your life that brought saddness, never had to deal with evil in the world, or anything else but happiness and joy, what need would there be for faith or obedience. We would be no more than spoiled brats that expected everything handed to us and that we get our own way reguardless of the circumstances. Sickness, saddness, hurt, pain, these are all part of life. They are the opposites of health, happiness, joy and comfort and without the opposites there to experience, the better things would have so much less meaning to us.

Healing and other blessings come through faith. Not just the " I believe it will happen " faith, but the faith where you are ready to endure persicution, or embarrassment, or ridicule, or injury. Look at the woman with the issue of blood who was healed. FIrst she appeared in public, which in her time it was very improper for her to even be out in public in her condition. Then she pushed her way on her knees through the crowd at the risk of being trampled and severly hurt just to touch the hem of Jesus' robe, all along believing that even such a small thing would heal her. There was also the blind man who sat by the road crying out for Jesus to heal his sight, even to the point of yelling when everyone was telling him to be quiet and threatining him. He had faith and was not afraid of the people around him, he was going to be heard so that Jesus would heal him. Our faith is tested daily and Jesus knows if we have the faith that we will be healed or to receive any other blessing He wants to give us. God does not say " OK you are saved, here are the keys to Heaven go have fun". God ask that we give Him the respect He deserves as the Creater of the Universe and the Savior of our eternal souls. If a man gave you a million dollars you would be more than happy to take out his trash for him if he asked, how much more should we be ready to do for God who has given us eternal life? I know that to me, salvation in incomparable to anything someone could ever give me


Posted by: Frederik

I agree, I also would like to serve God somehow, but how ?


Posted by: jedijeb

I don't know how you are meant to serve God but I know one man who serves God just sweeping floors. He is a janitor at a local school and says that is where God has led him to be. Just being a nice man with a smile most every day there to greet the kids as the come through the door or in the hallway, it a great witness for God. Just knowing this gentle man lets me see a little of what God is like. He told me he has worked in jobs that paid better or were more exciting, but this is where he is happy and is where God has called him to be. While we are all called to tell others about Jesus and witness for His Kingdom, not all of us are called to be evangelist or teachers or preachers or pastors.

Myself I am a chemist, I work to make sure the water people drink is safe or that the tanks at gas stations aren't leaking or that the wrong things aren't being dumped into our rivers. For 10 years I have been completely comfortable where I am, but lately since I have been looking towards marriage ( and I believe that is a calling in itself ) I have had thoughts of possibly mission work of some kind. Maybe that is God preparing me for the fact that He will call my future wife into missions or that we will be called to do something like that together. But before now I have never even wanted to leave this area near where my family is, was always afraid to move away, but now I have no fear of moving away if that is where I am led. That is God preparing me for something that is to come. No spectacular event or flashy changing in me, just a slow removal of the things that kept me glued to where I am. I was kept here for this long even when I hated my job I think to allow me to meet my future wife, now I don't feel that hold on me that is keeping me here. I will just wait and see what God moves into my life to show me where to go next, it may be next week or in five years, only God knows. I just take joy in the fact that God knows best and will take care of things as they need to be taken care of. That doesn't keep me from praying everyday that God show me His will for me now and in the future, I still do that and I have faith that He will reveal what I need to know as I can handle it. If God revealed everything I would ever do I would probably try to go do it on my own ahead of His schedule and mess things up totally Just remember Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit ( the things which come to you through the Holy Spirit ) is love, joy, peace,patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance ( selfcontrol ). against these there is no law.

Let the Holy Spirit lead you and give you faith and patience, then when you God calls you will know what to do to serve Him.


Posted by: babam

Soooo what we can dedeuce so far is that I can pray in complete confidence as a Christian for love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness,faith, meekness and temperance with complete assurance that
a, the above are "in the Lord's will"
b, that I asked not demanded
c, that they are found in The Word
and because of these I stand a pretty good chance of being a better person.
I say this because I struggle with some of the above and if there were to be a school report written on me in these areas it would say, "could do better".
As for callings, all summer I got "feed my sheep". I'm not sure how to progress in that one.


Frederik: Have you watched the telly thing I think I worked out its about 3 or 4 am our time?


Posted by: cgirl

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Can I get a witness up in hea?

Amen.


Posted by: jedijeb

Amen cgirl! Asking in faith while guided by the Holy Spirit will always bring results.


Posted by: cgirl

I heard this in a Bible study last week and I wanted to post it...
Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.