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Nahum 3:17
Thy crowned [are] as the locusts, and thy captains as the great grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges in the cold day, [but] when the sun ariseth they flee away, and their place is not known where t

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  #1  
Old 12-30-2003, 04:27 PM
rachelle rachelle is offline
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Can you drink and still be a Christian?

I am 24 years old and recently attended my brother's wedding where there was wine being served. My family is very much involved in the church and are truly Christians, but sometimes I feel their beliefs are a little too radical for me. I decided to have two glasses of wine to celebrate my brother being married and some members of my family didn't agree that I should have done that. My aunt called me out and told me she was upset about my and my other aunt's drinking and that she felt that drinking "just isn't right." I agree that getting drunk isn't right, but I do not see anything wrong with having a few glasses of wine on a special occasion. I was wondering if there are any scriptures in the Bible that will shed some light on this. I would also welcome any comments on this issue.
Leah
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2003, 04:37 PM
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I guess that depends on if you have ever had a drinking problem. If you never had, and just had a few glasses of wine, I don't see the harm, as long as you didn't get drunk, because that is wrong. The Bible even warns against getting drunk. I have a friend who used to be an exotic dancer with a bad drug and alcohol problem. She was delivered and sometimes has a glass of wine with dinner and suffers no ill effects. Her walk with the Lord is so strong! I am sure your relatives mean well. Don't let what they said hurt you. If you feel conviction about drinking, ask God what he wants you to do. I hope this helped you a little bit!
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Old 12-31-2003, 09:07 AM
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My friends all drink from time to time but never get drunk. I for example can't drink, I had a drinking problem when I was younger. A couple of days ago I tried to drink but couldn't. If I start I can't stop. And if I get drunk I start to smoke, so I know I have to stay away fron alcohol, any form. I can take it when it's used in recipies but that's as far as I'll go.

Liz
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Old 12-31-2003, 09:31 AM
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I don't think there is anything wrong with a glass of wine or champagne every blue moon (such as a wedding, etc.). It is a problem when you overinduldge and become drunk (Gluttony, which a a sin, is excess in eating, drinking, being greedy or excessive indulgence) or if you are doing it a way to escape reality.

However, as stated above, if you had a problem with alcohol in the past, why risk it? When even put the temptation before you?
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Old 12-31-2003, 09:37 AM
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I dont think theres really nothing wrong on an ocassion just for a sip of glass of wine but to indulge is different, but just one thing I wanted to say then I will be quite cause this thread will take off, when Jesus comes in the rapture I would NOT want to be found holding a beer or even wine or any alcohalic beverage in my hand so its better to just avoid it all and prepare yourself for his return by being found praying on your knees when he comes amen God Bless
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Old 01-02-2004, 01:56 PM
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Can you drink and still be a Christian?

The first miracle Jesus performed was changing water into wine at the wedding feast. At the last supper Jesus blessed wine and said "this is my blood". I don't think a glass or two of wine will make you stumble, unless it has been or is a problem. To tell others not to indulge becomes legalism. look at I Timothy 3: 1-3 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach, not given to wine, ..." Unless you are planning to be a bishop in your church I think you're ok!

Further, I Timothy 3:8 "Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine..." so even deacons can have a little wine!

Be moderate and don't over-indulge! Amen!
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2004, 03:14 PM
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[QUOTE=eagle4him]The first miracle Jesus performed was changing water into wine at the wedding feast.

I wanted to point out a little known fact about the wine Jesus created. It was "new wine" New wine is not fermented yet. It tasted so good and fresh people remarked how the best wine was saved for last.

We can find all kinds of scriptures on wine and I just wanted to interject something more. We are told not to be a stumbling block to those who arent where we are in the Lord. I too was at a wedding and had half a glass of wine with half of non-alcoholic wine. Well, I got so convicted because my girlfriend's daughter was sitting at the table with me. Now she drinks and gets drunk and has only recently been getting to know me and I talked to her about her drinking. Well my heart actually hurt because I felt I could be of no example to her that night. Did I get drunk? of course not. But another person maybe was wondering about my actions.

I dont believe a glass of wine or a beer will send us to hell. I drank to get drunk before I got saved and I told the Lord after I got saved I would never return to it again. So it is like a vow, and if I break that vow. Well.......that is one to think on isnt it?

I really feel we need to examine ourselves and do as the Holy Spirit leads us. I agree on gluttony too. We in the U.S have the worse problem with overweight than anywhere else. That is a sin too. I struggle with eating the wrong foods at times too. (sugar) So this could become sin in my life if I dont watch it.

I also dont agree with Christians sitting in a bar sipping a soda and saying they are in there to win people to the Lord. Come on ........Jesus is fully capable of bringing whoever to us. There may be a time the Lord sends us into a bar to get a specific person out but I guess I better leave it go now..........that is a whole different thread.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2004, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelle
I am 24 years old and recently attended my brother's wedding where there was wine being served. My family is very much involved in the church and are truly Christians, but sometimes I feel their beliefs are a little too radical for me. I decided to have two glasses of wine to celebrate my brother being married and some members of my family didn't agree that I should have done that. My aunt called me out and told me she was upset about my and my other aunt's drinking and that she felt that drinking "just isn't right." I agree that getting drunk isn't right, but I do not see anything wrong with having a few glasses of wine on a special occasion. I was wondering if there are any scriptures in the Bible that will shed some light on this. I would also welcome any comments on this issue.
Leah


Our first guide and first love must be what the word of God says.
Now please read what the word says then tell me what you think


What the Bible says about drinking alcohol: it bites like a snake
PRO 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright. 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

"Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor..." (Habakkuk 2:15)

"...Drunkenness...and the like...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God... And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." (Galatians 5:21-24)

I'm Just Being "Sociable"
Does the Bible say that social drinking is OK? "...We have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles...drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties... In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead." (1 Peter 4:3-5) Do you go to drinking parties?

But almost everyone does it. "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." (Romans 12:2)

Alcohol is extremely anti-social. Is it sociable to bully someone into drinking your poison? Is it sociable to drink this venom that causes abuse to innocent families?

But...
Didn't Jesus turn water into wine
?
Jesus and His disciples were invited to a wedding (John 2:1-11.) During this wedding, the grape juice ran out, so Jesus changed about 600 litres (130 gallons) of water into fresh grape juice.

In the original Greek, these verses use the word oinos, meaning either alcohol or fresh grape juice. But, "Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in...drunkenness... But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." (Romans 13:13-14) Surely Jesus did not make any provision for the flesh, to fulfil its lusts. Surely what He made was grape juice.

Wasn't wine used at the Lord's Supper?
Jesus ate the Passover feast with His disciples on the night before He was crucified (Matthew 26:20-29). By His death Jesus fulfilled the Passover Feast of Exodus 12:3-20. Replacing the Passover, Jesus told us to keep the Lord's Supper to remember His death for our sins.

Both the Passover and the Lord's Supper use bread, symbolising Christ's body broken on the cross. Leaven (yeast), makes bread rise, and was not used for these feasts since it often is a symbol of corruption.

Christ's death was foreshadowed by the death of a spotless Passover lamb. (1 Peter 1:18-19.) However, Jesus used grape juice to symbolise the blood of His new contract with us. Because Jesus has no sin (Hebrews 4:14-15), non-alcoholic (uncorrupted) grape juice symbolises His blood. Leaven is used to make wine ferment (become alcoholic). No leaven was in the house during the Passover week (Exodus 12:15) Thus, Jesus certainly didn't use alcoholic wine for the Lord's Supper.

Besides, Jesus called the juice the "fruit of the vine."
Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century AD) used the same phrase referring to grapes freshly squeezed into a cup. To assume that the "fruit of the vine" refers to alcohol is contrary to early usage of the phrase.

It may be true that the Passover was six months after the grape harvest. However, it was common at that time to preserve grape juice from fermentation by various methods such as boiling, storing in airtight wineskins, adding preservatives like sulphur, and filtering any yeast that would cause fermentation. Similar methods are still used preserving milk by UHT treatment, etc. Fruit juice and other products are kept in sealed bottles for long periods. There are many preservatives now in use.

Alcohol was not used at the Lord's Supper; therefore these verses can't be used to justify drinking alcohol.

Didn't Paul advise using wine?
Paul wrote to Timothy, "..****e a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities." (1 Timothy 5:23)

Again, the word for wine is oinos, thus there is no direct indication of its alcoholic content. However, a Greek writer, Athenaeus (AD 280), expressed words similar to Paul's, "Take glucose...being very good for the stomach." The health benefits of non-alcoholic grape juice, rich with glucose, are well known today.
Paul never recommended alcohol. To the contrary, an "...overseer must be...not a drinker..." (1 Timothy 3:2-3, A Literal Translation of the Bible)

I Only Had One Drink...
Alcohol kills your brain cells. The body can't replace dead brain cells. Do you want a moderately dead brain?

Dr. Lennane, director of drug and alcohol services at Rozelle Hospital, Sydney, says it is not only heavy drinkers who are being affected but social drinkers as well.

"...Drunkenness...and the like...those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God... And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." (Galatians 5:21-24)

"Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him..." (1 Corinthians 3:16-17). This would apply to everything that defiles, including alcohol, smoking, and other drugs.

Do Not Look!
Does the Bible teach total abstinence, or "moderation?"

"Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise." (Proverbs 20:1)

"Who has woe?
Who has sorrow?
Who has contentions?
Who has complaints?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
Those who linger long at the wine,
Those who go in search of mixed wine.
Do not look on the wine
when it is red,
When it sparkles in the cup,
When it swirls around smoothly;
At the last it bites like a serpent,
And stings like a viper.
Your eyes will see strange things,
And your heart will utter perverse things.
Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea,
Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying:
'They have struck me, but I was not hurt;
They have beaten me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake,
that I may seek another drink?'" (Proverbs 23:29-35)
Do you even look at the wine?

God is not a killjoy. He is warning us for our own sakes!

Read These Bible Verses:
Gen. 9:20-27; 19:30-36; Lev. 10:8-11; Num. 6:2-4; Deut. 32:32-33; Jud. 13:2-14; 1Sam. 1:11; Prov. 23:20-21; 31:4-7; Is. 5:11-12, 22; 28:7-8; 56:10-12; 65:8; Jer. 35; Ezek. 44:21; Dan. 1:8-17; 5; Hos. 4:11, 18; Hab. 2:5; Luke 1:13-15; 11:4; 12:45-47; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; 2Cor. 7:1; ***. 1:7.





Eph 5:18-and be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the spirit;

Hab 2:15-Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

Mt 24:48-51-but and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, my lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Lk 12:45-46-but and if that servant say in his heart, my lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; the lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

1 COR 11:20-22-when ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the lord's supper. for in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. what? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of god, and shame them that have not? what shall i say to you? shall i praise you in this? i praise you not.

1 THES 5:6-8-therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. for they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. but let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

PV 20:1-wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

ISA 28:7-but they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

ISA 5:22-woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink.

RO 14:21-it is good neither (it is not good) to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

LK 1:15-for he shall be great in the sight of the lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the holy ghost, even from his mother's womb.

It is written regarding the latter days which we are now in, AND TAKE HEED (or keep watch, or be careful) TO YOURSELVES, LEST AT ANY TIME YOUR HEARTS BE OVERCHARGED (or weighted down, or dulled) WITH...DRUNKENNESS...SO THAT DAY COME (or be sprung) UPON YOU UNAWARES (or suddenly like a trap)-Lk 21:34.

Nah 1:10-At the time of Armageddon the following shall be fulfilled. FOR WHILE THEY BE FOLDEN TOGETHER AS THORNS, AND WHILE THEY ARE DRUNKEN AS DRUNKARDS, THEY SHALL BE DEVOURED AS STUBBLE FULLY DRY.

It is further written in Isa 13:11-I WILL PUNISH THE WORLD FOR THEIR EVIL, AND THE WICKED FOR THEIR INIQUITY (or sins)-

Isa 13:11. The evil in the world will increase as birth pains of a woman in labor.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2004, 06:47 PM
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Yes Amen! It is easy to justify things sometimes because we aren't sure or our flesh likes things. The Holy Spirit lets us know what we are to do and not to do. And we are not to be conformed to this world, but transformed according to Romans ch. 12 verse 2. Also, we do not want to be a stumbling block to anyone. And another things as someone mentioned above, we don't want to have this in our hand when Jesus returns but we want to be doing the will of our father. That is what is most important and deny ourselves. Pray, and he will show you that all this that he says we are to abstain from is because he does love us and it harms us, and others around us.

Many many blessings. AND GOD BLESS YOU. We love you Jesus. I love you JEsus.

In Him,
Tammy
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Old 01-04-2004, 07:24 PM
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75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol


Should Christians really totally abstain from alcoholic drinks? Or does God tell us we can drink moderately?



In the 1800’s and early 1900’s the church in America took a bold stand for total abstinence. People read research about the word "wine;" Bible studies showed the truth about alcohol. The result was Prohibition with its great benefits. But the prohibition amendment was repealed, and the church began to weaken its conviction against alcohol. Today some pastors say, "What’s wrong with a six pack? Why get hung up on a little wine at a wedding?"

The Bible is the same "yesterday, today, and forever." What godly Bible teachers said in the past is true today. Dr. Robert Teachout, A Semitic scholar who, in 1979, wrote his doctorate on The Use of Wine in the Old Testament, stated, "Alcohol is never approved by God in any amount for the obedient Christian."

Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, author of Wine in the Bible, 1989, says, Drinking Alcohol is...a moral issue. It is...a transgression of God’s law."




FACTS TO KNOW

1) The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

3) The Bible says alcoholic drink is evil. It is not just the amount one drinks that makes drinking a sin. God condemns the drink itself. (Prov 20:1 KJV) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

4) God does not lead us into evil; He delivers us from it. He does not teach us to practice evil in moderation. Jesus did not make, use, approve, commend, or tell us to use intoxicating wine.

5) God made man to have fellowship with Him. Alcohol goes directly to the brain, the communication center of the body. It interferes with God’s purpose for mankind.




75 WARNINGS

There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.



1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.

22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.

25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable

26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.

27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)

30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.

32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.

33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.

34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.

35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.

36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.

37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.

38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.

39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.

40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.

41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.

43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.

45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.

46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.

47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.

48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.

49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.

50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.

53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.

54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.

55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.

56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.

57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.

58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.

62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.

63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.

68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.
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Old 01-04-2004, 08:15 PM
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Was Nadab and Abihu Drunk


Is that why God Killed them

LEV 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

LEV 10:8 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,
LEV 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations: 10:10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; 10:11 And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

In the OLD Testament you could not drink alcohol or strong drink when in the temple. So the grape juice they drank had no alcohol in it.

The old temple was done away with so we could be the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Therefore we can bring no alcohol or strong drink into our Temples because they belong to God.

1CO 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God , and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1CO 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid. 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
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Old 01-05-2004, 11:52 AM
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THE CUP - THE FRUIT OF THE VINE DID JESUS DRINK ALCOHOL

"And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remissions of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom," (Matt. 26:27-29).

These are the only terms ever used in the Scriptures for the liquid element of the Lord's Supper. "Cup" is a figure of speech for something to drink, and had it been left by itself, it would have left the usage open to almost any kind of drink; but it is further defined by the words "fruit of the vine", which reveals that this is to be the expressed liquid of the grape. Neither of these expressions give any indications whether this was to be fermented or unfermented.

The only symbolism required by the terms used is that of the grape being crushed so that its juice might be "poured out", Luke 22:20 (Greek). The purity of the Lord is symbolized by the unleavened bread, but the Scripture is silent as to the fruit of the vine ever symbolizing the purity of Christ's blood, and we go beyond what is written if we insist upon this. Many people, however, do insist that fermentation is necessary to purify the natural juice of the grape of its impurities, and there are quotations from human authorities which seem to substantiate this reasoning. We believe that these authorities have been misread, and in some instances, actually perverted, but be that as it may, we have no concern about what human authorities may say about which of the two forms is the purer. Our concern is with what God says in the Word.

WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURES?

No where is the Bible is the word "wine" ever applied to the Lord's Supper, which is exceedingly strange, if so be that this is an absolute necessity to the scriptural observance of it. And our Lord in His omniscience must surely have foreseen the great controversies that would arise over this question. Why then did He not in the beginning set the matter at rest and tell us that it had to be fermented, if this was the case? The thunderous silence of the Bible about this is surely significant, yet this significant silence is drowned out by the loud voices of human reasoning and tradition which are raised in defense of the fermented juice of the grape. The question, which, in God's sight, is the purer of the two elements, is settled by the Old Testament. Of Israel's wilderness trek, it is said, "Thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape," Deut. 32:14, so that if we can determine what Israel drank, we will know what the inspired word designates as the pure element of the grape. A very similar statement is found in Gen. 49:11: "Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ***'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes."

Here we see several things proven.

(1) The blood of the grape is found in the vine, not in the vat.

(2) This fresh "blood" of the grape is sometimes called "wine" though it is unfermented. Actually, the Hebrew word for "wine" here means only that it is "pressed out". It is a generic term for the extract of the grape, irregardless of its condition.

(3) Since the "blood" of the grape is found in the vine, then the pure blood of the grape is the unfermented juice of the grape.

Further proof of this is found in Deut. 29:6: "Ye have not eaten bread, neither have ye drunk wine or strong drink: that ye might know that I am the Lord your God." God fed the Israelites on manna, and they drank of the pure juice of the grape which they pressed out from the vines in their wilderness trek. They drank no fermented wine nor other alcoholic beverages during the forty years in the wilderness, so neither of these could have been pure blood of the grape, which, for the Bible believer, makes it clear what God considers to be the pure blood of the grape. To which then shall we submit ourselves. Tradition, human reasoning or the Scriptures?

GOD HAS SPOKEN

And we are not at liberty to dissent or disobey. Granted, human reasoning can bring up objections, difficulties and questions, but not one of these can stand against God's clear declaration. He has declared that only that "blood" of the grape which is found in the vine is the "pure" blood of the grape, so that this must be our element if we would use the pure element in our observance of the Lord's Supper. We are then faced with a decision. Will we obey the Scriptures, or will we go with the traditions and reasonings of the religious world, the majority of which uses the fermented extract of the grape? It will take considerable courage to stand against the practice of the generality of the religious world, and many do not have the moral courage to take such a stand. Do you?

THE LORD'S SUPPER IS A SYMBOLIC ORDINANCE

If the "fruit of the vine" is not pure by nature, but must be purified by a process of fermentation, will this not suggest to the thoughtful person that Christ was not naturally pure, but that He had to undergo some sort of purification before He could redeem men? But on the other hand, if, as the Bible declares, the "pure blood of the grape" is found naturally in the vine, then this corresponds exactly with what we know to be Christ's true state: He