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Nehemiah 3:18
After him repaired their brethren, Bavai the son of Henadad, the ruler of the half part of Keilah.

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World's Largest Prayer Board Annointed.net News - The Thorn in the Flesh was not sickness but a person

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Old 07-28-2004, 03:34 AM
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The Thorn in the Flesh was not sickness but a person

Oh my friends please study the verses below. I just love it when the Bible the word of God itself gives us the explanation. It shows very clearly the Thorn in the flesh was a person not a sickness. Every Jewish person would know this.

  1. God called people Thorns
 
  1. Thorns in the side
 
  1. Judges 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from
 
    Gilgal = The place where your reproach was taken away
 
    to Bochim The place of weeping
 
    and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt,
 
    I will never break my covenant with you. 2:2
 
    And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land;
 
    ye shall throw down their altars:
 
    but ye have not obeyed my voice:
 
    why have ye done this? 2:3
 
    Wherefore I also said,
 
    I will not drive them out from before you;
 
    but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides,
THORNS
    and their gods shall be a snare unto you. 2:4
SNARES
    And it came to pass,
 
    when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept. 2:5
WEEPING

SORROW

    And they called the name of that place Bochim:
 
    and they sacrificed there unto the LORD
 
  1. God called people Thorns through David
 
  1. The Lord said thorns were the Sons of Belial
SONS OF
  1. II Samuel 23:1 Now these [be] the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man [who was] raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, 23:2 The spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word [was] in my tongue. 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men [must be] just, ruling in the fear of God.
  2. II Samuel 23:6 But [the sons] of Belial = sons of the Satan
SATAN

DEVIL

    [shall be] all of them as thorns thrust away,
Cast away
    because they cannot be taken with hands:
 
  1. Paul Called them the Sons of Belial
    1. II Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for
      what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and
      what communion hath light with darkness? 6:15 And
      what concord hath Christ with Belial? or
      what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 6:16 And
      what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?
      for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said,
      I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and
      I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 6:17
      Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
    Unrighteous-

    ness

    Darkness

    Devil

    Infidel

    Idols

    1. God called people thorns through Jermiah
     
    1. We see here Sowing and reaping again thorns are people
     
    1. Jeremiah 4:3 For thus saith the Lord to the men of Judah and Jerusalem,
     
      Break up your fallow ground,
     
      and sow not among thorns. 4:4
     
      Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,
     
      and take away the foreskins of your heart,
     
      ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem:
    Fury of God
      lest my fury come forth like fire,
    Fire of God
      and burn that none can quench [it],
    Cast into fire
      because of the evil of your doings.
     
    1. Ezekiel called people thorns
     
    1. Jesus was despised and so was Paul. The people of Zidon despised us
     
    1. Ezekiel 28:20 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 28:21
     
      Son of man, set thy face against Zidon, and prophesy against it, 28:22
     
      And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
     
      Behold, I [am] against thee, O Zidon;
     
      and I will be glorified in the midst of thee:
     
      and they shall know that I [am] the LORD,
     
      when I shall have executed judgments in her,
     
      and shall be sanctified in her............. 28:24
     
      And there shall be no more
     
      a pricking brier unto the house of Israel,
    Briers
      nor [any] grieving thorn of all [that are] round about them,
    Grieving
      that despised them; ------
    Despised
      and they shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD. ...........28:26
     
    1. Again God called people thorns
     
    1. Ezekiel 2:1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. 2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.
    2. Ezekiel 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, [even] unto this very day. 2:4 For [they are] impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. 2:5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they [are] a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them. 2:6 And thou, son of man,

    Rebellious

    trangressors

    stiffhearted

      be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words,
     
      though briers and thorns [be] with thee,
    Thorns
      and thou dost dwell among scorpions:
    Briers
      be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks,
    Scorpions
      though they [be] a rebellious house. 2:7
    evil looks
      And thou shalt speak my words unto them,
     
      whether they will hear,
     
    1. Jesus Called people thorns
     
    1. We have the sower and the seed
     
    1. Mark 4:18 And these are they which are sown among thorns;
     
      such as hear the word, 4:19
     
      a. And the cares of this world,
     
      b. and the deceitfulness of riches,
    deceitfulness
      c. and the lusts of other things
    lust
      entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
    unfruitful
    1. Paul called people thorns
     
    1. Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed,
     
     
      receiveth blessing from God: 6:8
    people bear
      But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected,
    thorns
      and [is] nigh unto cursing;
    rejected
      whose end [is] to be burned. 6:9
    cast into hell
      But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you,
     
      and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. 6:10
     
      For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love,
     
      which ye have shewed toward his name,
     
      in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
     
    1. Pauls Thorn
     
    1. II Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory,
     
      I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth:
     
      but [now] I forbear,
     
      lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [to be],
     
      or [that] he heareth of me. 12:7
     
      And lest I should be exalted above measure
     
      through the abundance of the revelations,
     
      there was given to me a thorn in the flesh,
    Son of
      the messenger of Satan
    Belial
      to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 12:8
     
      For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me12:9
     
      And he said unto me,
     
      My grace is sufficient for thee:
     
      for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
     
      Most gladly therefore will I rather glory
     
      in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 12:10
     
      Therefore I take pleasure
     
      a. in infirmities, because of people These are the thorns in his flesh
     
      b. in reproaches, come from people
     
      c. in necessities, people did not give
     
      d. in persecutions, comes from people
     
      e. in distresses comes from people
     
      for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 12:11
     
      I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12:12
     
     
      Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you
     
      in all patience,
     
      in signs, Does this sound like a wimpy sickly man with
     
      and wonders, bad eyes
     
      and mighty deeds. 12:13
     
      For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except [it be] that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.
     

    Acts 14:6 They were ware of [it], and

    fled unto Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, ====> All part of the State called

    and unto the region that lieth round about: 14:7 Galatia

    And there they preached the gospel. 14:8

    And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14:14 [Which] when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard [of], they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: ............. 14:19

    14:19 And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, Here come the Thorns who persuaded the people,

    and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city,

    supposing he had been dead. 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him,

    he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe. 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many,

    Derbe is a city in the state or Roman region of Galatia

    Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain. 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

    Galatians 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I [am]; If he had bad eyes would you want that for I [am] as ye [are]: ye have not injured me at all. 4:13

    Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;

    but received me as an angel of God, [even] as Christ Jesus. 4:15

    Remember he had just been stoned. They knew he had just raised from the dead. Paul was just raised from the dead. They were watching the miracle of his healing right in front of their eyes. That is why they received him as an angel.

    Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record,

    that, if [it had been] possible,

    ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    Galatians 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.


    If you were Jewish you would know the tradition and theology from the Old Testament "Thorns in the Flesh always refered to a Person" This time that person was satan.

     
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    Old 07-28-2004, 09:35 AM
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    But who sent Paul this tormenting angel? Was it Satan or was it God to keep Paul from becoming too proud?
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    Old 07-28-2004, 01:11 PM
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    The last line of Jerry's post answers your question.

    If you were Jewish you would know the tradition and theology from the Old Testament "Thorns in the Flesh always refered to a Person" This time that person was satan.
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    Old 07-29-2004, 02:46 AM
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    Satan himself? I always heard it was one of Satan's angels.
    Where does the bible say it was Satan himself?
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    Old 07-29-2004, 03:47 AM
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    Again read the Word: It always explains who the messenger of Satan was.


    In the Book of Acts 19: Luke uses the words "After the uproar" (thorubos means noise clamor, turmoil, uproar, disturbance). Usually it is assumed this just means the uproar in the Roman theater in Ephesus (19:28-40). But it is very unlikely the matter ended there. At least Paul would have been arrested and made to explain himself. The mayor of the city quietened the crowd he then opened the court and they could call a "regular assembly" (19:38-39). So Demetrius would certainly have pressed charges. And Paul wrote that Alexander the coppersmith did Paul much harm (2 Timothy 4:14), probably with the support of the powerful guild of silversmiths.

    Paul said that his "Thorn in the flesh" was Demetrius and Alexander the coppersmith.


    All the people involved, and the circumstances which Paul mentions in his letter (2 Timothy 1:15-18, 4:6-21) fit an imprisonment (there were several, 2 Corinthians 11:23) in Ephesus.. Paul being "rescued from the lion's mouth" (2 Timothy 4:17) was in Ephesus not Rome. But "all who are in Asia have turned away from me" (2 Timothy 1:15) certainly points to an imprisonment in Ephesus, (as do the references to Epaphras and the letters Tichicus carried (Colossians 1:7, 4:12-13, 15-16, Philemon 23).

    It therefore seems likely that Paul was arrested after the riot in the theater, charged on the evidence of Alexander the Coppersmith, and thrown into the arena where he faced a lion. This did not require a Roman soldier to execute him, and his death could be explained as an act of God. Presumably the lion's mouth was stopped (Hebrews 11:33, as in Daniel 6:22), and as a result Paul was declared innocent and immediately released. And Paul, who had assumed he was about to die (2 Timothy 4:6-8), wrote a postscript to the letter (2 Timothy 4:9-18) in which he reported that this event was witnessed by thousands in the arena and the message was "fully proclaimed" in the city and all over the province.

    Paul was hunted down from city to city. That was the thorn in his flesh.[/B]
    They wipped him 5 times.
    They beat him with rods three times.
    They stoned him to death more than once.
    They chased him every where he went.
    He almost never had any peace.
    [B]That was the Thorn.


    He had just healed a man who was crippled from birth and look what these people did that followed him.
    ACS 14:19 ¶ And there came thither [certain] Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew [him] out of the city, supposing he had been dead. 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.

    Isn't it wonderful how the Word always has the answer if you look.
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    Old 07-29-2004, 04:27 AM
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    The thorn was people attacking him?
    Then why do many christians say the thorn was an angel from Satan? Every christian says something different.

    Also the German bible says Satan's angel [Satans Engel] and not Satan's messenger.

    2.Kor 12:7

    7 Und auf daß ich mich nicht der hoher Offenbarung überhebe, ist mir gegeben ein Pfahl ins Fleisch, nämlich des Satans Engel, der mich mit Fäusten schlage, auf daß ich mich nicht überhebe.

    Last edited by Frederik : 07-29-2004 at 04:30 AM.
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    Old 07-29-2004, 06:05 AM
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    Satan or a demon from satan moves on people to hurt other people.

    He moves on them to judge
    He moves on them to condem
    He moves on them to bring shame
    He moves on them to hurt
    He moves on them to seal
    He moves on them to destroy
    He moves on them to kill

    Just look at Iraq.
    The muslims call us the great satan yet they are the ones killing each other.

    The messenger from satan tempts people to do very bad things and they do.

    The people the messenger moves on to do evil become the thorn in the flesh to the Christian.
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    Old 07-29-2004, 08:02 AM
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    But my bible doesn't say this. This is adding meaning to the scripture. My bible says Satan's angel. I can of course interpret it and think what this might mean but this doesn't mean it's correct.
    And why can Satan's messenger not be a demon or a fallen angel? This is very well possible, too.
    I also looked up the passages where the english bible uses "thorn" and I compared them to the german bible and in the German bible it has a totally different meaning and not the german equivalent of the english word "thorn" is used.

    Last edited by Frederik : 07-29-2004 at 08:05 AM.
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    Old 07-30-2004, 10:21 AM
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    Quote:
    But my bible doesn't say this. This is adding meaning to the scripture. My bible says Satan's angel. I can of course interpret it and think what this might mean but this doesn't mean it's correct.
    And why can Satan's messenger not be a demon or a fallen angel? This is very well possible, too.
    I also looked up the passages where the english bible uses "thorn" and I compared them to the german bible and in the German bible it has a totally different meaning and not the german equivalent of the english word "thorn" is used.



    Then your bible is wrong.
    G4647skolops, skol'-ops; perh. from the base of 4628 and 3700; withered at
    the front, i.e. a point or prickle (fig. a bodily annoyance or
    disability):-thorn.
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    Old 07-30-2004, 11:28 AM
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    I checked 2 german bible versions looking for which word they use in judges 2:4 to describe "thorns" and they used the german words for "scourge" and "rope" and not the german word for thorn.

    Basically the german Luther bible says this in judges 2:4 (when I translate it into English)

    And I spoke: I don't want to run them away from you,that they become to you like ropes and their gods like meshs.

    Maybe Luther messed it up...

    Last edited by Frederik : 07-30-2004 at 11:33 AM.
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    Old 07-31-2004, 05:03 PM
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    I remember my Grandmother telling a story about one of us telling her that the reason we have stickers (goatheads, burrs, nettles) was because God cursed the ground. This was such a delight to her. She said she'd never thought of it that way, but supposed it was true.
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    Old 02-21-2007, 12:54 AM
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